Source: https://linux-hardware.org/?view=os_display_server
Reporting is done by users who voluntarily upload their system specs via
# hw-probe -all -upload
I’m sure Nvidia will become stable on wayland by the time xfce also migrates lol
NVIDIA is likely to be stable on Wayland next month. If you wait for other people to ship you code, it will arrive with the fall releases ( eg. Ubuntu 24.10 ).
Xfce is targeting 4.20 for full Wayland support. If you use Xfce 4.20 on kernel 6.9, you may break the Internet.
He said the numbers.
Nice.
Bc if you had meme dreams they would be nightmares?
NVIDIA is likely to be stable on Wayland next month.
Do you have a source for that?
Not digging them all up but this is the next article up for me: https://www.phoronix.com/news/XWayland-24.1-Released
Thanks for the link :)
Pretty much all the Xfce4 apps support Wayland. We just need Xfce4 panel and the desktop.
Web is no display server.
Ah right, their smart-tv OS.
who is using linux through their web browser
Users of ESXI, 3CX, Univention and Nextcloud
would that show up as their display server though? surely VMWare et al run some other display server on the backend and then stream to clients via VNC?
No, that’s why the web frontend graph is at 0%.
And those systems don’t have a display server, they open up a web server to interact with.if the graph is really at 0%, and not 0.0001%, why’s it there at all?
also, i’m really confused as to why an HTML webui would qualify as a display server.
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Finally, it’s the year of the other desktop!
As someone who switched to wayland way back when sway was dominant…? About time.
I wonder how representative that is of actual software used. I would imagine hardware probes are run from installers and live systems quite frequently. I would certainly not expect several percentage points of “neither” in practical settings.
“Neither” are Linux systems that don’t use a display server, i.e. CLI only systems.
Yeah, but when was the last time you decided to upload hardware device data for a root server to some hardware survey? That is something almost exclusively done by the kind of people who want to show off their system in some way.
Counterpoint: OS market share from the corresponding BSD-hardware site:
Four kinds of blue in that graph.
And green. All associated with the more popular variants pfsense, opnsense, truenas, and freebsd.
Data truly is beautiful
Especially on servers I make sure to attend in the software packages survey. Just so that the holy-gods and kings of maintainers are aware of me, the peasant running old packages.
No yield saya. I’m sorry.
I would guess not very representative at all. I don’t believe wayland usage is higher, like at all. Maybe in a limited setting like NEW installs of the most popular distros, just because they default to it. But the existing install base? No way.
This is a graph of recent reports (one year time frame). The total reports from all time are over 70% X11.
But since the statistics are based on one time uploads, there’s no way to know how many of those systems are still in use, or still run X11.
Reporting is done by users who voluntarily upload their system specs via
# hw-probe -all -uploadSo not skewed at all…
Why would it be skewed? What would be the cause for a subset of linux users, that upload hardware probes with extraneous information about their display server, to skew the extraneous data?
Because a huge portion of the people willing to do this are already on Wayland, but I believe there exists an even larger percentage on X that are not submitting any data.
And another commenter said:
We’re just left to do armchair psychology about the type of people who would submit data to this site. So the numbers are effectively useless.
Because a huge portion of the people willing to do this are already on Wayland, but I believe there exists an even larger percentage on X that are not submitting any data.
What is the basis for that assumption?
And another commenter said:
We’re just left to do armchair psychology about the type of people who would submit data to this site. So the numbers are effectively useless.
So because one cannot know which type of people submit data to the site it should be disregarded? That’s basically saying any poll or questionnaire with anonymous yet unique answers are invalid. That’s a pretty bad argument.
Anonymous polls are indeed useless for several reasons.
Man I spent 4 paragraphs saying what you just said in one sentence. 😅
So because one cannot know which type of people submit data to the site it should be disregarded? That’s basically saying any poll or questionnaire with anonymous yet unique answers are invalid. That’s a pretty bad argument.
This is basically a survey or poll. You want people to provide you with data about what they’re running. To get an accurate view of the entire population you need a representative and randomized sample. If you’re relying entirely on self-reported data you’re not going to be getting a reliably randomized subset of people. You’ll get people who are motivated to report their usage to a third party. That can lead to persistent biases in the data.
It may be that Wayland use is being under represented because the people reporting want to show that “X11 is still king!” Or it could be that this website is shared frequently with certain user groups (e.g. in some arch (btw) forum or something) and so you’re getting a skew towards that population and away from the whole.
We don’t know who these users are and we can’t “offset” for those factors. And the data isn’t reliably randomized so it’s subject to those biases whether we know about them or not.
Though as another person pointed out the trend itself may be of some interest if the population being polled is consistent. Though I doubt anybody suspected that Wayland use is NOT increasing?
by default, your content is all rights reserved, the most restrictive license possible. AI trains on “all rights reserved” content all the time. You really think adding a CC-BY-NC is gonna do anything?
I just did that, why not, but it misreported my DE anyway, so I’d take the OP post with quite a grain of salt.
Do you have a better way of measuring it?
In what direction would voluntary self-reporting of all system specs skew the display server statistic (and why)?Do you have a better way of measuring it?
No better way of measuring doesn’t mean this is a good way of measuring.
What way do you imagine would be more precise?
What way do you imagine would be more precise?
Unavoidable analytics, apparently. Yay?
I like the way kde does it. On first install it gives a slider with how much analytics you want to send. I just do all of it because I trust KDE, but it’s nice that it asks you. They probably have some pretty good data.
This is the important point IMHO. This kind of feedback is exactly something I’d love to do, but I don’t think I had any idea about it before this post. Just a little popup on a new install/upgrade would be a much broader net.
Well do you want useful stats or not /s
But seriously, a lot of opt-in (that never get opted in to) data is insanely useful for developers, but it has such a bad stigma that we never get anywhere close to the amount of usefulness a larger dataset could provide.
Tbf a lot of that stigma has to do with trust violation.
A method that attempts to collect data from a randomized or representative population rather than relying on self-report.
The fact that you need consent to get this data would make a randomized approach impossible.
Yes. It just may be possible that accurate poll data on such things isn’t possible.
Steam hardware survey but that will skew towards gamers. That said, it would be a good indicator on how compatible Wayland is.
Could always go for opt-out instead opt-in metrics. Fedora had some recent controversy with it.
I imagine people who care about this sort of thing are more likely to report it. And people who care about this sort of thing are also more likely to be early adopters and go through the effort of switching to Wayland.
The way to get a more random sample is not something I want (built-in, automatic telemetry by default). So I’m fine with having skewed data for something like this.
Its a pretty good survey and has a good sample size. Statistics is hard. I won’t take the criticism too seriously.
err, why? actually it can be skewed against wayland(wayland users tend to be more security aware), and why the suprise, KDE, GNOME are wayland from the get go, steam deck too, hyprland and sway etc
It can skew either way equally. We’re just left to do armchair psychology about the type of people who would submit data to this site. So the numbers are effectively useless.
I’m not actually. Does anybody doubt that wayland use is increasing? Distros have increasingly been making it the default. I’d be surprised if use weren’t increasing. In fact it might be under-represented in this data depending on whether all distros are being accurately represented or not.
fair
But the change in the numbers is not useless since the psychology of the Wayland users vs. x11 didn’t change
That seems probable but was there any doubt that Wayland use is increasing? Wayland has been changing to the default distro by distro. The only reason this is “news” is because somebody has claimed that “Wayland usage has overtaken X11”.
Wait Steam Deck now runs Desktop mode in Wayland?
plasma do, unless valve changed that
On launch Steam Deck had it’s desktop/Plasma session set to X11, hence my question
yep, plasma was still x11 from default when steam deck launched, plasma 6 switched to wayland as default, now i don’t know if steam deck was updated to plasma 6
Those poor Nvidia users lol.
yup, same. especially after explicit sync lands in a couple of days, even the rest of the minor problems should vanish.
I can’t wait for my GPU to not be at 70c running Firefox.
Same here. With the exception of the explicit sync, which will hopefully be resolved this week, I have been running Plasma 6 wayland since February. And honestly when I tried the X11 version it had more issues.
fine here as well. I don’t game much these days but when I do, it’s pretty nice. Ever since the update that made the “night light” functional (the blue-light filter), I’ve been pretty happy!
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Wayland works way better for me than X. GTX 1660
That’s great for you. But it also has tons of problems with a lot of other users. Including issues with proprietary drivers, XWayland compat for many apps/games, screen tearing, multi-monitor setups (esp. with different aspect ratios and/or dpi scaling factors), VRR, HDR, rotation, color management, many accessibility features etc.
I mean, by now everyone should know not to buy Nvidia hardware if you want to run Linux on it.
It’s been more than 10 years since Linus’ finger to Nvidia.
nvidia works better for me on Linux than both nvidia/amd on windows. I know not everyone’s experience is the same, but it’s at least not universally bad in case you were trying to say that.
“Everyone” who wants to be informed, but linux is also for the unconcerned or for newcomers.
Not to mention the monopoly that nvidia has on laptops.
I know it would be great if we could install Linux on any hardware, but unfortunately we’re not there yet.
So you can either buy a laptop with Linux preinstalled, from a manufacturer who will support it, or do some research before hand.
And Nvidia doesn’t have a monopoly on laptops, you can buy an AMD gaming laptop
Linux is becoming more and more popular on the desktop because it is now well suited for gaming. In addition to Proton, you also have to consider all the handhelds like SteamDeck. Valve certainly doesn’t want an Nvidia product with crumbling proprietary drivers. With AMD, Nvidia could see that there is a market for it and has now established itself. It was only logical that Nvidia would not stand still. They will do everything to dominate the market as well.
Sorry. Wife’s Christmas present. She wanted to surprise me. Gotta make do.
Which nvidia drivers work with Wayland? I have one pc that only has 470 supported card, l guess all hopes are lost there… But my 980 gtx machine seems to work mostly on wayland, except somehow minecraft only works on Xorg
That’s a good question for Nvidia.
Gtx 470 should work just fine, but 980 will not work because nvidia locked it down.
Yea, it works with 470 using nouveau drivers but the card isn’t as fast as with the proprietary drivers, at least it felt like that for me
I think you need to change pstate in debugfs
Edit: 🥺gifs don’t work?
/sys/kernel/debug/dri/*/pstatehttps://nouveau.freedesktop.org/KernelModuleParameters.html
I had gtx 760 ti(yes, it exists) long time ago. It worked slow until I changed pstate.
🤩I’ll try
Gotta resoect the tty. Consistently consitent
Out of curiosity, what GPU do you have?
My intel laptop on kde is unreliable, but gnome is super stable.
If you want windows like taskbar, you can turn it on gnome and other features that will make it more like windows.
On desktop with AMD video card I saw no difference between kde and gnome.
I ended up back on gnome. Because it was less distracting. I am a long time gnome user and kde was a curiosity. Latest versions of both (Arch Linux).
Would love to know how you’re dealing with Gnome and HiDPI. I found it really wacky, massive title bars and such. Went to KDE Plasma 6 and it all looks right, but agree it seems a little wonky sometimes. I’m hoping the bugs get ironed out.
Given that my monitor is HiDef, no I have no size issues in Gnome.
KDE apps under gnome look like kde apps.
Gnome look like gnome.
After I installed KDE, vscode title bar got bigger.so, KDE impacted look of some apps. Not gnome itself.
I don’t think my monitors are high def.
It is simply 3440x1440.
It’s UWQHD. It’s higher than fullHD, so it is high def by definition.
I try to switch once a month. Still not there for me yet, last time Cura was acting up.
Wait, is it on a population of 5000 computers? Bruh, why are we even looking at this?
No the sample size is ~5000, which is pretty OK if representative of the population (big if though)
I doubt it’s representative of the population. Because it’s from self reporting, at best it’s representative of those who advocate their favourite platform, which is just a particular portion of the population. Though it would be cool to see Wayland surpass X
Given that it requires self-reporting from the command line, I feel like the people that are more likely to be on the cutting edge may be more likely to report as well
To the contrary, I would expect the sample to skew more towards people who have a heavily customized X session and strong opinions about window managers while drastically underrepresenting average GNOME users who stick with the default Wayland session. Someone who likes their custom setup can still be waiting for a Wayland equivalent while casual Ubuntu users have been defaulted to Wayland on new non-nvidia installs since early 2021.
This isn’t prompted. To send your data, you have to install a cli tool and run it with 2 specific options.
I don’t think any new users are represented in the sample.It collects system info that helps you troubleshoot, or check a computer’s compatibility with Linux.
It offers a switch to upload your anonymized data to the web site where it’s visualized and ordered for better readability, and also entered into the statistical analysis.
Hence the big if
thats so pog, i wished it actually worked
