Hello fellows,
I’m currently looking in 13-14" laptops with no immediate needs for one but just because it’s exciting. I love my Dell XPS but I feel I should support companies with which I share more common views. I could make the effort to go a with a less attractive look (especially for bezels) but I don’t want to go wrong with hardware so what are your thoughts on Framework, Starlab, Purism, and System76? I’ll be running Arch and I tend to have a preference for Framework for now.
Do you have feedback (positive and negative) to share on any of these companies?
Thanks for the knowledge you’ll bring me. That’ll be extremely useful when time comes to go with a new machine.
Update 1: Still wonderful to be part of such a great community. Thanks for all the great feedback (looking for more :) ).
So far everyone is standing behind Framework. Anyone with a less positive experience or who would like to speak for the other companies?
Update 2: Thank you fellows for the time you’ve spent to share your honest feedback! I didn’t want to influence your inputs but you all confirmed the Framework picture I had in mind. It’s a piece of mind to read real world experience so thanks again. I was surprised to not see the system76 community speaks louder. Anyway, when time comes I will (virtually) push Framework shop’s door.
@wwwgem I’ve been extremely pleased with @tuxedocomputers in both product quality and support. Next laptop will assuredly be another from them.
Mainstream? Avoid anything other than Lenovo ThinkPads. Rather than trying to buy the freshest budget model, try for 1-2 generations old T serie flagship, or even L serie. Search <modelname> PSREF and check if a WWAN M.2 slot is available, so you can buy a $30 2230/2242 SSD for Windows, and make your machine have both Linux and Windows. ThinkPads have the best aftersales support and third party parts support, with open schematics and warranty that allows user tinkering.
Other boutique Linux catering brand options are already discussed so pointless.
Yeah Lenovo have always been really good for me with Linux. I think if I had the money I’d still go either Framework or System76, but my current laptop is just a mid-range Lenovo Ideapad and it seems to run any Linux thing I chuck at it quite happily.
You will not have troubles with Lenovo aftersales or parts support, that is the greatest benefit I think. It means basically you can hack through and run a laptop down to the ground.
Framework and System76 are both pretty good and user-serviceable. I know System76’s customer service is particularly really good.
Framework and ThinkPad have both been a really positive experience.
Re your update.
My framework has been great, I’ve had no issues with it and I’m quite happy. Make sure to go with the matte screen though.
In saying that, I think I was happier with my thinkpad, but I have no good scientific reason for that, I suspect the nipple and keyboard are a big part of it.
Framework
Your comment is one of few that really deserves a downvote - but there are at least 30 people that interpret the downvote and upvote function differently. Lucky you. Downvoting should be used to identify poor comment quality, not disagreement. Your comment quality is very poor.
If you drop it and break the frame you can easily replace it.
And the company has been ultra-transparent about any issues so far.
Also all the spare parts are available straight from Framework and especially the consumables are cheo.
It’s terrible because it’s great and I just can’t shake the feeling that there’s an investor lurking somewhere, waiting for the right moment to jack up the profit margins, fucking up an extremely nice thing. If Framework ever goes public, that’ll probably be the beginning of it getting worse.
The bad thing is that it’s way more expensive than similar specs on another laptop. The other option doesn’t have all the fancies of repairsbility and replacement but it’s also way cheaper.
Is it way more expensive? I thought it’s at a similar price level to the comparable laptops like XPS 13 and X1 Carbon.
Looked just now, XPS 13 starts at CAD $1350, and the Framework 13 starts at CAD $1420. Both have similar specs.
The only thing that I’ve seen is Framework’s customer service is unbelievably fantastic–until it’s not. They had some deceptive marketing on their SSD modules, which they marketed as being useful for booting an OS on, but then later said on their forums that they weren’t designed to be used that way.
The average customer won’t have any issues, but every once in a while a customer reports feeling burned because they had persistent issues that Framework was unable to solve. After RMAing a number of times their support tells you to pound sand.
Check the outlet online. Refurb parts and whole laptops for a nice discount. No sense in buying one brand at this point since the core components are a bit behind from the initial development and release cycles getting worked out.
That’s the entire point of the Framework platform.
While I’m yet to do it myself, I would suggest getting a Thinkpad T480 and upgrading its RAM. The reason you want a T480 is because it was the last Thinkpad to have user removable parts. One tip: when using eBay, make sure you filter out the T480s. The T480s is not the same as the T480 since it doesn’t have user removable parts.
Noted.
What parts other than one stick of RAM aren’t upgradeable on the t480s? The processor? I’ve seen screen swaps, touchpad swaps, keyboard, just about everything. I got one back in the summer, added a stick of RAM to get up to 16gb, it’s running at 3200mhz like the other one, and swapped in a new OEM battery. It’s been great. I also recently bought a e495 for around 60 bucks, it’s thicker and plastic-ey, but also a solid Linux machine running an AMD CPU. Are the newer t14s really that crippled in repairability?
Thanks for the tip. I know a lot of people are going for Thinkpads and you’re specific recommendation may seem interesting but I’d like to support other companies like the ones I bought from so far (Toshiba, Lenovo, Dell, Vaio, Acer, PB, Razer) and I’d also like to build my own laptop from the start.
Of course. Just remember this when buying a laptop (and by extension a printer): FUCK HP!
HP are pretty awful when it comes to shenanigans with ink cartridges and all that, but HPLIP is great and deserves some credit.
I hate Lenovo and I have a Lenovo laptop. The company is shit but the laptops are great. I justify it by buying used.
I’ve been disappointed by them and as you can tell I’m not the kind of person to be married with a brand :D I may go back to them one day if there’s really one machine I want. Until then I’ll stay away from them. Also I really would like to support a company with a better philosophy (from my POV).
Lol that’s 6 years old!
Yeah it is but it’s a pretty capable laptop. I’ve replaced mine with a Framework 11th gen for my daily use but my T480 is currently hosting 10 VMs for my homelab. It’s got the base CPU, i5-8250U, 64GB of RAM and a 4TB SSD and is plenty of horsepower. I really only got the Framework because I was excited about the product and company, not because I was unsatisfied with the T480. I highly recommend it.
I am currently reviving an T410 for my kids. I put an 250 GB SSD inside and the newest Linux Mint and play around with it now. I am still on 4 GB Ram, as I didn’t want to spend the 60€ to upgrade to 8 GB, yet.
It runs great. I can watch YouTube, browse the web and rip some of my CDs for my NAS and my Kids Audio Players with that sweet internal DVD drive. My guess is 60% of the people would not need more computing power. And this machine was released in 2010.
I’ve had a framework for 2 years now. It’s run fedora, manjaro (arch based) and Debian with no major issues. Manjaro had some problems with KDE and the high DPI screen. Sometimes the scaling was inconsistent between apps. Fedora just works.
Only hardware issue is the battery life is just not that great. And the trackpad doesn’t always work property, but I think that was a first generation issue that’s been resolved since.
I’m going to add my +1 for framework, I got the batch 5 original framework 13 with pop os on it and a windows 10 copy on a 250gb expansion card. Its been my main work and play laptop and I enen replaced the main chassis after it got smashed (long story) involving the sidewalk. Anyway I love what framework is doing and the decision has arguably already paid off within these last two years.
Anyone have some experience with StarLabs?
Ordered a StarFighter like more than half a year ago and am losing confidence in the company…
Well, the Laptop is still not released. Not sure what I can say more about it :-\
That is an outrageously long time to wait for a laptop without updates. From the prices I just looked up, it also is outrageously expensive.
I would have sought a refund before now already, but that’s just my opinion.
Framework. I’ve run Debian, Fedora and for a while now NixOS, all of which have worked flawlessly.
I did have to replace the heatsink/fan part on mine because the fan bearing started clicking, but I’m sure that was just a first generation product issue (I was one of the first batches). I was glad to be able to do the replacement myself at relatively low cost and the process couldn’t have been easier (took about 30 minutes).
My previous machine was a 2013-ish ThinkPad X series and the Framework absolutely blows it out of the water. I’m looking forward to upgrading mine to a Ryzen motherboard sometime in the not so distant future.
framework are low in numbers, id check out tuxedo for linux laptops
I’d be careful about buying ‘niche’ brands like framework and system76.
You’re going to be paying more for inferior hardware, and a lot of the people on these forums don’t really understand this.
Make sure you’re getting it because you want it, not because someone else wants it for you.
Influence is a curse in today’s world. I’ve made this final selection of brands based on personal choice and for reasons exposed in this post. But it’s all personal so you may disagree with some/all candidates and that’s perfectly fine. I’ve posted here to actually collect as much opinions as possible so thanks for sharing yours.
Companies always find a way to justify for higher price to sell you not that good hardware or to overprice their stuff for non sense reasons. As anyone else (except fan boys of any given brand) I’m running away from that. In my personal views, companies on this list have reasonable offers considering their history, clients pool, philosophy…
Framework is maybe the best deal here because it has good price and all parts of their machines are replaceable. And again, prices for the parts are fair. So in the long run, users may be winners if the company doesn’t crash. If it does then it won’t be worth than having bought from another company. With all the options to build the laptop you want for your needs it really make me feel like customizing my Linux system but from a hardware standpoint. It’s a big plus for me to pay only for what I want/need and with them you can go even further by physically positioning your ports on the fly. That’s an unseen degree of freedom and it has real world applications.
Framework prices aren’t cheap unless you really fudge the numbers. That said, it will still be my next laptop, because I’m fairly confident it will be cheaper long-term
I have a framework laptop and endeavour os with gnome de. I’ve had no problems with it. I mainly use it for dev work and web browsing. I enabled gnome muli-gesture (basically the same gestures on a Mac trackpad). I’ve had no problems with that either.
I’d recommend it.
I’m a fan of refurbished ThinkPads myself, but that is mostly for money reasons. If I had money to blow, I would probably also buy a Framework
Another happy Framework user here. I have 2 first gens in my immediate family and 2 second gens among my friends. All run Ubuntu LTS. No one is complaining. I’ve already replaced my bottom chassis because I destroyed it during a bad mishap. Ordering was easy, the part was inexpensive, the replacement was straightforward. A Dell XPS perhaps feels a bit better made, but then it doesn’t say Made in Taiwan on the bottom so there’s that. 😅
On the other hand System76 is building a new open source desktop environment in a sane programming language… 🤔 If COSMIC desktop turns out great and I end up using it, I’ll probably throw a couple of hundred their way in lieu of buy their laptop.
Oh I now remembered that mine developed a problem with one of the USB ports, not a cartridge but the host port. Framework sent me a new board. I replaced it easily and sent the bad one to them.
Novacustom or System76, they actually use open Firmware.
Framework tried Coreboot, has problems and gave up. When buying a Laptop with coreboot you support open Firmware Development for all CPUs, many board generations etc.
Just look at 3mdeb’s Dasharo guide. Its nearly as secure as Heads, on a modern Laptop!
Not true, firstly ‘framework’ never tried Coreboot they have provided boards to coreboot devs however, who’ve had issues including accidentally bricking the board. New boards have been shipped, and the origional fixed. They haven’t given up though completely and the work is still being done. There was a recent talk that had to be canceled due to the speaker getting sick on this subject. Work is likely still being done, but is slow, and will continue to be so.
Still though, there’s no evidence that framework has ever had or ever will have the intention of including core-boot by default. They’re simply supporting coreboot devs to make it compatable
The reasoning for why the others have it is likely due to system76 and nova customs using mostly generic parts like the shell and motherboard along with being around longer. It’s great to support a company that’s ensuring coreboot works on their system however and pushing towards a non-proprietary future
Thanks for clearing up. Frameworks are probably rather special and thus not as easy to coreboot
Since it was not mentioned yet: https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en
If I would not get so many old computing devices that fulfill my needs (I don’t game on PC/Linux) I guess I’d buy one of those. I live in Switzerland and having a german company for support would be superior to me. And I heard that build quality should be great 😇 😂I guess I’d really like to have one, but as I said, for my needs, my macbookpro5,3 running arch does the job.
can confirm that tuxedo is great if you are in Europe. It has been my daily driver for 3 years with debian sid and it’s great!
I’ve had the TUXEDO Pulse 15 from tuxedo computers for about 2 years and it’s great.
Nice to hear 😄
