My thoughts is that it’s a simple situation really. If they’re harassing or assaulting people, the women will call the cops or something, simple situation and get the guy arrested. If he’s not doing anything, it’s nothing harmful. Apparently that’s not a solid enough answer. What should I have said?
I am a straight guy and I have used a woman’s restroom.
But only in the context that it was a single restroom and the men’s was occupied. I just unilaterally executed my male privilege and declared that the woman’s restroom was unisex for the time period that I needed it.
There was nobody else in the room and if there had been first the door would have been locked or I would have been absolutely mortified.
This was super common in college dorms as well. The etiquette was that if your hookup or friend was using the bathroom on your floor you were supposed to stand outside and let people know about it. You know, informed consent and all. Absolutely zero people ever gave a shit.
The entire fear kind of makes me assume that all conservatives are just opportunistic rapists who are kept in check my the thinnest veneer of social order.
Are single-sex dorms a thing over there? Ours were always mixed with unisex bathrooms - stalls for everyone.
The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want?
And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero.
The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine.
I don’t want to do that. Right now, without any god, I don’t want to jump across this table and strangle you. I have no desire to strangle you. I have no desire to flip you over and rape you.
-Penn Jillette
The amount of times I as a straight cis man have had to go in the women’s room for a changing table for my child is unacceptable
I have seen it in a few instances where the baby changing facilities were only in the women’s bathroom, and a father needed to access them. I wish that bathroom discourse could involve structural inequities like this, but the bigots are overly concerned about what is in people’s pants
… Am I the only one who’s used the wrong one just because that’s how little attention I’m paying?
I have actually used a restroom many times when someone of the “wrong” gender was cleaning it. It turns out that person did not try to get an angle to scope out my junk, or molest me or whatever these people believe is going to happen. If someone did that, I would pretty much react exactly the same regardless of their gender. I’d be like “bro what the fuck no free previews.”
What exactly do they think goes on in these bathrooms anyway?
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In my opinion, what restroom to use depends on what you have between your legs. “Gentlemen” for penis. “Ladies” for vagina.
Great, how are you checking and enforcing this
and what is stopping a cis male from doing the same?
Irrelevant but: I, um, did this once. We were at a fancy art gallery. I somehow followed what I thought was a mixed group into what I thought was a general bathroom. I remember thinking “what a novel concept to mixed bathrooms this is!”
It was only afterwards that I realised that, no, this was not a mixed bathroom. No one said anything, but I cringe at myself and at how uncomfortable I must have made people feel.
That is the scenario…
What’s to stop him just walking in anyway?
Don’t live in the US, but in Sweden almost all WCs are gender neutral.
But the scenario is a cis gender male, walking in to a bathroom where he doesn’t belong. And you ask what is stopping him, well in the world where someone is asking you what gender you are, to allow you to go the bathroom; I guess that will be stopping you.
It’s a made up scenario
Culture and common understanding. The sense of shame he’d get from everyone around saying, why are you in the wrong toilet? And the potential for escalation if he doesn’t turn back and leave.
Changing culture means new adaptation to what’s comfortable, what feels safe, and how you can interact with a stranger without getting the police involved. We have to adapt: but that change is a legitimate difficulty/concern for women who don’t feel safe doing their ‘toilet’ with men around.
Is there no one in the replies here who thinks women have a legitimate discomfort, or unsafe feeling, having men around in a toilet space, even if the men aren’t actively being harmful?
No women here who had difficult upbringings with men? No men whose daughter or sister or female friend feels uncomfortable letting certain barriers down around strange men?
Of course there is an important discussion about how bathroom culture changes as society’s acceptance of trans people changes.
But, OP, I think what you would do best beyond what you said, is to acknowledge that some women have a legitimate concern, even if there’s not an easy answer. Once you have that point of agreement - once the other person can see you care about the concern they’re coming from - you have a foundation for discussing a real problem and/or solution.
Otherwise you’re just buttimg heads to win, and asking an internet echo chamber to adjudicate.
Whatever you answer to a question like that is going to be attacked. The best way is not to answer, but reply with a different question, for instance “what are you afraid of?”
You made a mistake.
You engaged with someone that wasn’t asking in good faith. The idea itself is so stupid that snagging engaging with it isn’t worth the time and effort.
The only useful response to that question is “are you really that stupid, or do you think I am?”
Reminder that this is not a thing that has ever actually happened.
…Or reported, rather (I’m not American).
Not saying I have the answers, but I typically attack the person’s desire for oversimplification and binary stupidity. Like, “Do you feel like this question encompasses all bathroom related issues?” It gives me the time to think, while also assessing their vulnerabilities from an unexpected redirection. I ultimately attack their confidence in forming questions by adding edge case exceptions to their simplified outlook.
When someone poses a question like this, the are telling you that they lack depth. They do not have a good grasp of scales or complexity. They also lack the self awareness required to effectively empathize with others. This is a vulnerability that they have exposed. By exploiting this vulnerability, you invalidate their argument, take control of the rhetoric, and you increase the chance that their insecurity motivates growth of their self awareness at some later point.
I see three broad categories of sexual misconduct a man could get up to in a women’s restroom:
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Sexual assault and/or rape. Since his sex will become very apparent during the act there’s no real disguise needed; avoiding getting caught here is making sure you’re not identifiable to security cameras covering the entrance. Walk in, stand just inside the door.
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In-person voyeurism. Want to get an eyeful in person, see some of that under-stall ankle. I see no functional difference in this case between posing as a trans-woman and posing as a woman. Like what’s even the difference in implementation? You can be slightly lazier with your disguise?
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Installing cameras. Uploading to a shady website or something. Trans-woman is the wrong disguise for this job; you want to pose as a janitor or maintenance worker. Wear a grey jumpsuit with a name sewn to the chest and no one will bat an eye at you taking several trips to carry tools and ladders and shit in there. Drill holes in the wall, run some wire, tamper with the plumbing fixtures. Wear a high vis vest, carry a clipboard, wear a hard hat and walk with purpose and you can bring power tools into places much more secure than a women’s restroom.
I don’t see how trans people existing worsens any risk here, is my point. But it’s not about that, is it?
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This. ☝️
It’s best to ignore them. There’s no use getting into an argument with someone who’s disingenuous to start with.
And if they can’t “getchya”, they’ll just stop responding or change the subject without ever acknowledging that you’ve proven your point.
i’ve understood that coed bathrooms have existed in various places in the country long before republicans decided they were going to create a campaign against transgender people using restrooms. Grow up. Everyone poops!
