Hey - an explanation. Who’da’thunk it?
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Scratched liberals abound. It takes very liyyl3 for them to be racist and chauvinist.
Yes. What does “liberals” mean exactly?
It means supporters of the dominant ideology if capitalism, just like it has always meant.
Not at all true. If you’re referencing US ideologies of Capitalism, holy shit are you wrong and read the wrong Wikipedia.
In fact, the Democrats since the 60’s have run campaigns WAY against the threat of late-stage Capitalism. Republicans are the pro-capitalist party in the sense they want to privatize everything and help their friends, and also “deregulate” anything and everything.
These are anti-capitalist ideas.
Come on back with some more Wiki links, good buddy.
Not at all true. If you’re referencing US ideologies of Capitalism, holy shit are you wrong and read the wrong Wikipedia.
I am quite correct, though I am referring to liberalism in the general internationa sense. This is what liberalism always has been. You must understand it as what it is and has done, not what it tells you it is meant to be. As Stafford Beer said, it makes no sense to think that the purpose of something is what it consistently fails to do. The liberalism of the enlightenment had in its right hand brutal, racist colonial exploitation and in its left a ruthless industrial revolution chaining the people to factories and removing them from all commond and property. It is a product of capitalism itself.
In fact, the Democrats since the 60’s have run campaigns WAY against the threat of late-stage Capitalism.
The Democrats are a capitalist party and always have been. They do not work against capitalism at all, they support it and protect it. There is really such thing as late-stage capitalism, it is just capitalism developing over time, retaining most of its qualities but taking on new angles. Buy if it does mean anything, it means neoliberalism wrought by financialization, and that is Democrats’ main political base. It’s their main thing, especially as an export.
Republicans are the pro-capitalist party in the sense they want to privatize everything and help their friends
Democrats also do this they just tell you it is efficiency and “public-private partnerships” and “a generous endowment to a public institution” (that they can now defund). The charter school movement is largely Democrats, for example. They simply have different factions on their chopping block, different groups to pander to.
These are anti-capitalist ideas.
What ideas are anti-capitalist? I didn’t see any.
Come on back with some more Wiki links, good buddy.
No thanks. Read the political philosophers of the enlightenment, colonialism, industrialization and proletarianizatikn, the liberal revolutions in Europe, and who emerged to identify themselves as anti-liberal once those revolutions established their ideologies as mainstream, namely monarchists, fascists, socialists, and anarchists. You cannot gain a political education through Wikipedia, it is a Cliffs Notes approach to social topics often written by often incorrect or heavily propagandized (or propagandist!) People, including literal Nazi apologists.
Dubliette is referring to the thought-terminating cliché that every major US party doesn’t want to abolish capitalism (the economic system centered around capital, private ownership, etc.), ergo we’re all liberals.
I dunno how you can terminate a thought that never began
thought-terminating cliché
There’s no argument, it’s the definition of the word. Why do you assume there should be argument around the normal usage of a word?
A capitalist is someone who owns capital, not someone who supports capitalism. A liberal is someone who supports capitalism. I don’t think Linus is a liberal, given that he’s the Linux guy. But he’s obviously a capitalist, and that’s okay, that’s something you should strive towards if you live under capitalism, even if ideologically you oppose capitalism.
Lolbye
A thought-terminating cliché (also known as a semantic stop-sign, a thought-stopper, bumper sticker logic, or cliché thinking) is a form of loaded language, often passing as folk wisdom, intended to end an argument and quell cognitive dissonance.[1][2] Its function is to stop an argument from proceeding further, ending the debate with a cliché rather than a point. Some such clichés are not inherently terminating. They only become so when used to intentionally dismiss dissent or justify fallacious logic.[3]
In fact, the Democrats since the 60’s have run campaigns WAY against the threat of late-stage Capitalism.
Bruh what world are you living in lmao. Obama reached to bankers uncaringly tanking the global economy by giving them money to do with as they wished (and, as always, they wished to give themselves a bonus).
As a finn, I understand that there are probably legal reasons for doing this.
I just wish they would be transparent and share those reasons with us. The Linux kernel is certainly not the only free software project that is impacted, if this comes straight from EU/US sanctions. Maintainers of other projects have a lot of interest in what is happening.
Transparency is also important because if EU/US policy/sanctions are causing issues for free software projects, then that discussion needs to be public, so that there is a chance to amend the policies if necessary.
The legal reasons was because the Linux Foundation is based in the USA and the targeted devs worked for companies explicitly sanctioned by the USA. Linus said he knew and trusted the devs he was forced to delist.
The Linux Foundation needs to relocate to some stable neutral country like Switzerland.
Switzerland is controlled by the US
Suggest a country then
Politics should not be on FOSS development.
It has to be there, because politics is connected with lawmaking, and open source software is dependent on laws.
A lot of people like to say that politics isn’t in their life or that they keep politics out of their life, but the reality is that’s just not true. The rules that govern society affect you, always, either with or without your input, either with or without your acknowledgment.
You’re probably trying to say that we should keep pointless politicking out of open source software, and I agree, but that’s going to come down to personal definitions of pointlessness.
The F in FOSS stands for politics
That is hardcore wishful thinking, the nature by which critical digital infrastructure is developed and maintained is of keen importance to political systems everywhere. This situation was inevitable with the ongoing escalation of war
That’s why the “should be” I guess, though that’s not to say there aren’t idiots (right in this thread too) actually shilling for this.
If current open source licenses still have flaws like this, we’re gonna need new ones.
Everyone who disagrees with me is a paid russian troll of course. Nobody would oppose blacklisting people based on nothing but their nationality unless they were getting paid for it.
That’s true, as he said just use your brain, Russia is under sanctions he literally said that, so Russian troll is a actually very accuracy
“The imperial core is sanctioning Russia therefore you are a Russian troll.” Impeccable logic.
I guess it’s difficult to otherwise explain the position you have? It’s not like people face criminal charges in Russia just for speaking against it. It’s easy to see how the state would want to introduce backdoors to most western systems.
It’s extremely sad that a lot of good Russians get swooped in this. But even abroad their lives are in danger to fight the state.
I think you’re making up a world in your head. Who are these “lots” of “good” Russians who are abroad and whose lives are in realistically danger of state assassination? Not that it has never happened, but you’re blowing things out of proportion. Probably Russia does it at a scale roughly similar to the US.
Very nice link that not only does not have a list of names but also fairly explicitly explains that it is not talking about Americans killing Americans.
I am not going to spend more than 30 seconds on it but here is the first list of “lots” of Russians that are believed to have been assassinated by their own government.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_notable_Russians_in_2022–2024
Despite your personal attacks, the trivially discoverable facts are not on your side.
I used Wikipedia since you apparently find it credible.
My favourite “suicide” of a notable Russian in the last couple of years was the one that had a suicide note signed by “illegible signature” ( what it actually said ). I guess the FSB did not totally understand the instructions.
Indeed A LOT of falling out of windows. Quite a bit of poisoning as well. These are the successful ones. How about that time they poisoned the entire Ukrainian peace team including the owner of the Chelsea Football Club?
I think you’re making up a world in your head.
My friend, they poisoned people in the UK with a fucking nerve agent. They are so brazen and open about people being killed for not doing that the Kremlin tells them.
They have purposely made a meme out of the “suspiciously fell from window” thing, because they want people to know exactly what happens and why.
Nerve agents compared to drone strikes look humane and civilized.
Disagree. Chemical warfare is an entirely different beast.
We’re talking about poisoning a single person not a gas cloud. Poisoning a single person vs drone striking a wedding.
they poisoned people in the UK with a fucking nerve agent.
Yes, they did. How often is that happening? Proportion.
We’re not talking about taking out former spies in foreign, sovereign nations you dolt. I used that as an example to show just how brazen and open they are about this stuff. Using such a dangerous method, on foreign soil, is basically unheard of.
If you actually want to talk about frequency, we should be looking at the defenestration cases…
This shit is happening so frequently that there are several wiki pages dedicated to listing them:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_notable_Russians_in_2022
Scroll down to “see also” for a long list of related articles about the Russian government assassinating citizens and low-level bureaucrats.
Assuming you actually give a shit
EDIT: apparently Lemmy markdown doesn’t like the link. For anyone who can’t figure out why it’s not working, or for some weird reason thinks I would make up a wiki page with a title that specific:
Suspicious deaths of notable Russians in 2022–2024
And, again, after checking out the main article, take a look at the “see also” section.
Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name.
In any case, the defenestrations I’ve heard of have been within Russia, not outside it.
Using such a dangerous method, on foreign soil, is basically unheard of.
Not unheard of. US drone strikes on US citizens is a no-less dangerous a method.
It’s almost as if the markdown on Lemmy changed the text of the link so it’s not valid.
And you couldn’t take the 3 second to fix it, and then actually learn something.
Well done.
You also seem confused about what we are even talking about. We are referring to software developers WITHIN RUSSIA. So the risk of defenestration is very real. Again, to repeat myself, I only brought up Russia using chemical warfare on foreign soil as an example to show how open and brazen they are.
I edited the original comment with a fixed link if you actually care
Aren’t the removed commiters with direct access to the kernel? It’s not like it’s some rando that makes pull requests.
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Shame to see this shit from torvalds
I understand where this comes from, he is finnish but this is pretty unprofessional.
Linus unprofessional?! Surely you jest!!
He’s gonna ban american and “israeli” maintainers too then, I guess?
Why? There aren’t any sanctions for them in Finland?
Linus said it was to prevent security backdoors.
It can be two things.
Free as in… obeys US foreign policy
I’m pretty sure not just the US wants Russia sanctioned to the oblivion. All of the Europe that borders Russia wants that. Now why would it be like that?
It makes no sense to discuss here.They probably follow Russia’s narrative of Europe being a puppet of the US.
In the article, Linus explicitly said that it’s not just a US thing:
And FYI for the actual innocent bystanders who aren’t troll farm accounts - the “various compliance requirements” are not just a US thing.
That’s more like his opinion or a post facto justification. Turns out it is a US thing.
If your company is on the U.S. OFAC SDN lists, subject to an OFAC sanctions program, or owned/controlled by a company on the list, our ability to collaborate with you will be subject to restrictions, and you cannot be in the MAINTAINERS file.
So to get back, you have to basically prove that you have no relations with OFAC SDN companies.
This update is from https://lwn.net/Articles/995186/
I’d really like to see the criteria for delisting people, though. As Russia is not the only one waging wars, there are worse countries out there. I guess it all boils down to Linus being from Finland.
The US and EU governments have the criteria for sanctions available.
- https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/sanctions-against-russia/sanctions-against-russia-explained/
- https://ofac.treasury.gov/sanctions-programs-and-country-information/sanctions-related-to-significant-malicious-cyber-enabled-activities
- https://ofac.treasury.gov/sanctions-programs-and-country-information/russian-harmful-foreign-activities-sanctions
- https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/EN/FAQ/sanctions-against-russia/faq-russland-sanktionen.html
- https://www.trade.gov/russia-sanctions-and-export-controls
An update:
If your company is on the U.S. OFAC SDN lists, subject to an OFAC sanctions program, or owned/controlled by a company on the list, our ability to collaborate with you will be subject to restrictions, and you cannot be in the MAINTAINERS file.
That sounds like an advice, not something official? Also why is an open source project affected by US sanctions? It’s not an US open source project, or is it?
Linux Foundation (of which Linus is an employee) is an US entity. RISC-V International foresaw this and chose to incorporate in Switzerland.
But does it mean they own Linux? They list (support I guess) a lot of projects, including RISC-V. BTW smart move from RISC-V
The Linux kernel (the code) is open-source. Linux Foundation (the people who write said code) is headquartered in the US. The US can decide what Linux Foundation can and cannot do, who works there, etc. They can’t control who uses the code.
There may be worse countries, but rest of the word is not in a proxy war with them.
Yeah the kernel might end up being forked if this shit keeps going. Sanctions affecting open source software like this was not something I expected…
Nah. If anything, USian and non-Russian companies will add one or two more devs to their efforts to take up the slack. Linux is the bedrock of their revenue streams.
Man, I wish he’d leave the communication to someone else. He is so, so bad at it. And this isn’t the first time
The way he attacks critics puts himself in a bad light. But much more importantly, I read this and am still unsure if he has administrative/legal reason, security reasons or political reasons…
If I’d work in Russian propaganda, I’d love this so much. Hope this will not cause disruption in the community.
It is inherently disruptive. And “knowing” Linus, if he apologizes for the communication, it won’t come soon enough.
Lol, ml. users getting wild in the comments
Wow, some real clown behavior from Linus.
Linus has never been the best communicator, but he usually speaks the truth. But this is just bonkers and wrong. Not everyone living in Russia has “ties with Russia” other than “they were born there”. If this is about sanctions, he could have still just told them that. But instead he just disrespected contributors completely and then double down in it by being xenophobic.
Hate to break it to you, but if you live in Russia and can be useful to the government, they will make you useful. Unless you don’t mind you, or your family suffering and dieing, there is no stopping that.
Russia has no law to protect its citizens, only to scare and oppress their citizens. If Russia wants you to do something, such as working in a backdoor in software, you have no choice. So it is a good choice to not leave that door wide open in my opinion.
[Citation needed]
Yup. If you don’t want to “mysteriously fall from a window,” you do what they say.
I agree 100% with Linus here
I don’t understand how sanctions can impact free software, tbh, what’s free about this? This leaves a weird taste, I have to admit.
Linux foundation is a US company, and he’s a EU citizen and there’s companies that those devs where employed that are under sanction , hot that hard to understand
he’s a EU citizen
He’s also been a US citizen since 2010.
It’s really disappointing seeing Russian contributors being disrespected like this, the regime that rules Russia wasn’t entirely their fault, and allegiance, nationality, and ethnicity are all clearly different things
Also, wouldn’t a state sponsored Russian hacker pretend to be from the US or something anyway? No way they’d contribute code as a Russian, that’d just increase others’ suspicion
I agree with Linus a lot too but I strongly disagree here. I hope he’s just being made to say this because of government policies
At this point it’s the Russians peoples fault.
Dumbasses like you are why the Ukrainian population is paying for your mistakes
could you elaborate on why?
And the most dangerous part here is the whole rethoric of “if you disagree, you are a Russian shill”.
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the comments on the article started off pretty good but pretty quickly devolved into a cancerous combination of NAFO and Hasbara.
