Neither. We can’t even unfuck Earth, where in that did we earn the privilege to pollute the cosmos?
Who do we need permission from? The rocks?
You’re so fixated on whether you can that you will never stop to question if you should. What, are you going to frack asteroids until they become space junk? Utterly violate another planet to its core for all its worth the way you’ve done the Earth, just to bail out like the deadbeat developer humanity has proven itself as? Disgusting, parasitic, over-consumptive, self-centered, practically narcissistic-assed question out of you.
the levels of 白左 on some hexbears, really… 100% moralising 0% thinking
Ok ‘colonizer’; you can go up first. Hope you die in the vacuum after your vessel malfunctions.
Neither. We can’t even unfuck Earth, where in that did we earn the privilege to pollute the cosmos?
What kind of weird Abrahamic mental model is going on here? We need to morally prove ourselves to Jehovah and he will decree we have “earned” the “privilege” to go to some rocks? Makes no sense.
What’s your definition of ‘pollute’? I don’t really get how the verb ‘pollute’ can apply to non-biological planets; to me the word means something like ‘putting matter in places where is disrupts ecosystems’. I think the book about Gaia has a definition like this too.
Yeah no; I don’t do ‘quibbling definitions with sophists’. If you don’t know what ‘pollute’ means, you’re not fit to discourse with me. 🖕🖕
I think this is the Gaia quote they’re talking about –
The very concept of pollution is anthropocentric and it may even be irrelevant in the Gaian context. Many so-called pollutants are naturally present and it becomes exceedingly difficult to know at what level the appellation ‘pollutant’ may be justified. Carbon monoxide, for example, which is poisonous to us and to most large mammals, is a product of incomplete combustion, a toxic agent from exhaust gases of cars, coke or coal-burning stoves, and cigarettes; a pollutant put into otherwise clean fresh air by man, you might think. However, if the air is analysed we find that carbon monoxide gas is to be found everywhere. It comes from the oxidation of methane gas in the atmosphere itself and as much as 1,000 million tons of it are so produced each year. It is thus an indirect but natural vegetable product and is also found in the swim-bladders of many sea creatures. The syphonophores, for example, are loaded with this gas in concentrations which would speedily kill us off if present in our own atmosphere at similar levels.
Almost every pollutant, whether it be in the form of sulphur dioxide, dimethyl mercury, the halocarbons, mutagenic and carcinogenic substances, or radioactive material, has to some extent, large or small, a natural background. It may even be produced so abundantly in nature as to be poisonous or lethal from the start. To live in caves of uranium-bearing rock would be unhealthy for any living creature, but such caves are rare enough to present no real threat to the survival of a species. It seems that as a species we can already with stand the normal range of exposure to the numerous hazards of our environment. If for any reason one or more of these hazards should increase, both individual and species adaptation will set in.
What is your definition of pollution tho? How can there be pollution on a lifeless rocky planet?
Again, I don’t do “quibbling definitions with sophists”, and honestly this just reads as techno-woo made to justify leaving dead rovers and broken satellites in our wake. “Oh, it was already there in trace amounts so we can just leave our toys scattered around the playroom.” If I had that kind of laissez-faire attitude towards say, Yellowstone, I’d be put out of the park and banned for life. The fuck happened to ‘leave no trace’?
Who or what is harmed by a piece of lifeless metal on a piece of lifeless rock?
You said you’re against sophistry, then you said Mars=Yellowstone
Classic troll move of refusing to engage when someone points out you’re making no sense.
D) Move manufacturing and other dirty processes off planet and live here.
Why is this getting upvoted so much, its just NIMBY, but for the universe. We should decrease environmental damage rather than exporting it or sweeping it under the rug.
yes.
if we want to become a true space faring species resilient to all that the universe can throw at us we will need both
Why not both?
I’m guessing B will happen first, just because we have so much more control of the environment, but we’re still so far away from either one… Maybe I’ll get to see the early stages sometime in my life.
The Lunar Gateway will be complete in your lifetime and and the Artemis program is underway. Who knows what will happen after that.
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If the colonization strategy is the Moon then Mars, I expect humanity would have the technology needed to colonize Mars easily while terraforming occurs.
The problem with an O’Neil Cylinder is bringing up enough processed material to build one.
The problem with an O’Neil Cylinder is bringing up enough processed material to build one.
One possible solution is a moon base. The moon is full of titanium and iron.
And then you could launch the stuff out of a weaker gravity well with no air resistance.
I don’t see the application of an O’Neil Cylinder within the Earth and Mars gravity wells given how expensive they would be to build next to better places to grow crops.
If one does get built, I would expect it in orbit around Jupiter or Saturn to support activity there.
After reading A City on Mars by Kelly and Zach Weinersmith I think a O’Neill Cylinder spinning spaceship for artificial gravity type is more achievable than planarity colonisation.
But the main point of the book, and I am fairly convinced of the more I think about it, is that it is a lot of effort and risk for not a lot of gain and we are entirely unprepared for space colonisation.
A quote attributed to a few people, Heinlein and Pournelle for two, “If you can get your ship into orbit, you’re halfway to anywhere.” Both space and planets have shared and their separate problems to solve. In my head I prefer the image of most populations moving into habitats in space, customized to their preferences, with smaller settlements on various bodies for their own purposes. In my realistic view I don’t see us getting that far before we get bogged down with all the problems we’ve created on this planet. The window to a permanent space civilization might have already shut. A sad thing, as a 70s kid I grew up convinced we were full speed into some version of what scifi had sold to me.
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Both.
How to survive in space: Develop ways to survive in space only first. Once you manage that all the other problems are trivial compared and you don’t have a single point of failure (aka our planet) anymore. Isn’t that obvious?
Is this sub-populated mostly by Facebook people? Some of the answers really feel like it.
All these answers are so killjoy and boring. Like yeah we should strive to make our own planet better, but why not also do this? Building habitats on other worlds doesn’t prevent us from caring for this one.
Plus maybe trying to make a liveable environment in space can give us new insights in preserving the one at home. Like how solar panels have come from space exploration.
All these answers are so killjoy and boring.
Yes, fantasizing about billionaires fixing everything by making good on their bullshit marketing pitches is very exciting to credulous people.
Building habitats on other worlds doesn’t prevent us from caring for this one.
If you believe that there’s some magic means to have zero emissions launches into space that are in any way self-sustained without further launches to keep throwing resources after spent resources from an increasingly polluted, depleted, and warming Earth, sure, you can huff that hopium deep and hard and ignore the worsening material reality all around you.
Plus maybe trying to make a liveable environment in space can give us new insights in preserving the one at home.
You’ve bought deeply into billionaire bullshit and their bogus promises, especially as privatized space travel in the west becomes increasingly vanity tourism and marketing stunts. The accomplishments of such companies’ underpaid and overworked workers achieve are not for the common good, nor can they be because they are publicly subsidized private companies seeking to maximize profits and expand their own venture capital appeal, and nothing more.
You seem to be letting your hatred for Musk confuse you about space exploration. NASA and other governmental agencies do very important work when it comes to space exploration
You seem to be conjuring an imaginary psych degree so you can concern troll. Fuck off.
He has Musk Derangement Syndrome 🤣🤣🤣
Too much time reading clickbait
“DAE le Musk Derangement Syndrome?”
Techbros are burning the world down in swathes to fuel their theftboxes at best, and artificial lovers at worst, Neuralink just fucked some guy’s brains up, Cybertrucks keep failing left and goddamn right, but sure, let’s just chalk all this up to “Musk Derangement Syndrome” jesus fucking christ I hate you techbro settlers. Please die young of something preventable.
Can you string together 2 sentences without culture war tropes?
Culture war is when a person points out the chauvinism inherent in cracker fantasies about colonizing the stars because there is nowhere left to colonize here without just admitting to themselves they just want to subjugate everyone and everything on earth and above.
@frauddogg@hexbear.net is 100% correct in every single comment they have made in this thread.
I can’t really even add anything to this other than say they right fuck off.
Can you string two together without coating your tongue in c-suite low quarter polish?
Die in a vessel fire, colonizer. Infinite Apollo 1s on every settler trying to expand their necrotic reach to the stars.
Techbros are burning the world down in swathes to fuel their theftboxes at best, and artificial lovers at worst, Neuralink just fucked some guy’s brains up, Cybertrucks keep failing left and goddamn right, but sure, let’s just chalk all this up to “Musk Derangement Syndrome” jesus fucking christ I hate you techbro settlers. Please die young of something preventable.
lol this sounds like you have smoke coming out your ears writing it
Meh I dislike Musk as well but I don’t let that cloud my judgement of his companies or science/engineering in general.
He isn’t even the guy behind any discovery his manifold bought-up companies make. He’s just the nepobaby failspawn of blood emerald mining company money in South Africa; and as far as I’m concerned, that makes anything that comes out of his companies while he helms them fruit of the poison tree.
We do not support, uplift, or patronize colonizers, slavers, resource-extracting thieves, or any combination of the three in this house.
He isn’t even the guy behind any discovery his manifold bought-up companies make.
Then stop obsessing on him maybe? The thread was supposed to be about space stations and stuff.
I don’t let that cloud my judgement of his companies
That says a lot about you, then. The guy’s a fascist but you don’t care because
muh bazingamobiles and space crap!Polly’s Tenet: “I can excuse anything from anyone if it means my treats arrive on time”. My parrot is literally more disciplined than these settler shitstains.
We all know what NASA research is really for.
My grandpa helped design and test the tech for ballistic missiles while working as a private contractor for a now defunct aerospace corporation under contract with NASA.
If he was still alive I would say he gets the wall too.
Space exploration isn’t unique to capitalist systems.
Drej Queen, Earth yearns for the Cleansing Light of extermination
Drej words for "I think I’ll just sit back and watch these ignorant humans burn their own planet down while fantasizing about escaping it for now.’
Why would people want to focus more on things we can actually do right now and would improve our lives instead of completely unfeasible pipe dreams? I don’t understand.
Isn’t there space for both? Why not try multiple avenues? Why have this negative view on everything? Wouldn’t you say the airplane and the car have tremendously improved humanity, even with all its downsides? Or the cellphone?
I bet at the time of their inventions you would be opposing it because “billionaires are bad and this industry is going to explore the working class”. Guess what? Yes billionaires are bad and explore people and you (all of us) should be fighting against that, not against scientific and engineering inovation.
Every industry exploits the working class under capitalism.
Are we colonizing planets or building habitats in space right now or any time in the perceivable future, though? No, so beyond a fun thought experiment or sci-fi material, it’s not an idea worth giving any serious thought towards.
Right because innovation materializes itself when we want … We just flicked our fingers and airplane, cellphone and others just appeared.
Who are you to tell what we should or should not pursue?
Are we pursuing colonizing planets or building space habitats in any serious way?
Isn’t there space for both?
No. Flatly. You do not get to eject any more human garbage into the cosmos from which we came-- you already have WHOLE FUCKING ARRAYS of busted up satellites and pieces of rockets and a bunch of other more shit floating in high orbit that you have no plans to go retrieve, mind you; fuck would you propose making even more for? Other than the narcissistic techbro flex, I mean?
There is no way you are this upset about piece of metal existing on Mars, littering the rocks. You’re upset about something else and transferring it.
It physically enrages me every time I look into the night sky ad have to question how much of what I’m seeing up there is just dead space junk. I grew up considering the cosmos more beautiful, and honestly, more sacred than even the ocean that perpetuates our planet. So no, it actually does anger me that people just brazenly throw around ideas of doing what they’ve already done to Earth to other planets, and honestly fuck you for trying to minimize that rage.
Are you a psychiatrist? Do you have ANY kind of accreditation or doctorate to make such a call? I don’t know how you got a lemmygrad account; but I can only take it to mean the moderation there really is slipping.
It physically enrages me every time I…
I’m starting to suspect it doesn’t take much to physically enrage you 😄
All these answers are so killjoy and boring
Fuck you, the planet is literally on fire and you bazinga-assed techbros want to talk about escape plans. FIX WHAT YOU FUCKED UP FIRST.
the planet is literally on fire
Nah.
You can ignore catastrophic global warming and actual fucking wildfires of unprecedented frequency and scale if you think being a Reddit-tier pedant will protect you.
What do you mean?
Launch Billionaires into deep space without supplies
Ringworld.
Actually, both.
Bonkers question. Can’t even figure out living on Earth sustainably and you want to talk about doing it without gravity, an atmosphere or an ionosphere?
Not a bonkers question, it’s actually totally predictable if you have an accurate read for both the White urge to despoil the frontier, and the depths of techbro narcissism. They just want to be the first to bust their load somewhere new, no matter what it takes, no matter whose resources they have to spend, no matter what they leave behind. Colonizer-assed cracker techbros always leave shit behind.
This is what the space-age (hwhite) colonizer’s future looks like: every planet now has ring arrangements of dead satellites, empty fuel pods, blown-apart thrusters, and other assorted human-make space junk. Rings of garbage for all nine, dead vessels (crewed by now, long-dead, pressganged “conscripts” [because “conscript” causes less riots than “undesirable”]) hanging in high planetary orbits like macabre baby mobiles, and a still-smoldering coal where Earth used to be.
I have no fucking respect for it.
Only two things are infinite: the universe and Seppos’ ability to bring up race in any convrsation.
If you’re an aussie you’re no fucking better settler lmfaooooooooooooooooooooo
Westerners try to accept that the rest of the world exists challenge: impossible
Don’t you have a democracy you should be overthrowing?
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Don’t you have natives of your own to be ceding your land back to, then going the fuck back to Britain afterwards? Settlers are settlers, no matter what white country they illegitimately live in. America, Britain, Australia, France, Spain, Belgium, the Nordics, all of you are exactly the same.
What. Are. You. On. About.
This is an Markov Chain bot or something.
No you’re just a settler brain dipshit that gets uncomfortable getting called out, the fact you are an Aussie calling someone else westerner is fucking rich lmao.
The typical reaction of a cultist: denying that people that disagree exist, by dehumanizing them.
As long as there are white people, we have to keep having this talk. At some point they’ll realize that white is a caste and hopefully give it up.
