To be clear, I am only talking about people like the average working class Trump voter. The ones who just got caught by misinformation, and just haven’t been able to find a way out. Trump and all his mates are terrible people, and should be held accountable.
The average voter is another thing. My attitude is that I got lucky, and found out that Trump and his mates are terrible, instead of getting sucked down a rabbit hole of supporting them. Knowing how fascism works, I don’t know if I’d be able to reliably land on the right side if fascism happened in my home country. And if I don’t believe I could reliably spot fascism, I’m not comfortable acting like those who support Trump could have.
This isn’t a discussion of “just be a good person”. I know plenty of amazing, caring people who believe they’re doing the right thing.
This whole idea of “I can’t say is reliably avoid fascism” is based on this, the school that became fascist for a week. As bad of an experiment that was from that teacher, it was an effective way of teaching how people fall for what should be obviously a bad thing.
I won’t associate with those fascist.
Just to be clear i am not defending the extremists. So before you judge this just remember I’m not talking about shit like QAnon. Those guys can fuck right off.
I don’t hate all of them. They just fell for the propaganda, which none of us are immune to. I don’t think the average republican is as racist or fascist waiting for an opportunity to do shitty things. They are just people that want a better life for themselves and their families like the rest of us do. The problem is that they’ve been led to believe the democrats and immigrants are responsible instead of the literal people they voted into office and the corporations dictating their every choice through algorithms and misinformation. They’ve been bamboozled to the highest degree and we shouldn’t hate them for that. And we’ve been led to believe that republicans are responsible for all of our problems when it’s literally the people we vote into office fucking us over too. We’re both getting fucked by everyone in charge and we all take it in stride when it’s “our guy.”
I remember when I was a kid back in the early 2000’s there was a sentiment between pretty much everyone that the government doesn’t give a shit about us. Sayings like “fuck the system” were ubiquitous when I was I’m high-school regardless of if you were a Republican, Democrat, or somewhere in between. Nowadays we are being manipulated to hate each other for the smallest of reasons because it benefits the powers that be. And that’s not just Republicans. Like, when was the last time you had an actual conversation with a Republican that wasn’t trying to tell them they are wrong and explain why you are right? And when was the last time a Republican talked to you without doing the same thing?
Like when it really comes down to it, why the fuck are we fighting with each other when we all know FOR A FACT we are all being manipulated to hate each other? The extremists can’t fuck right off, but the average American from all backgrounds are being manipulated to hate each other instead of looking at the real issues. And now we have fucking Elmo doing a Nazi salute at the fucking inauguration of the president. And I’m sure a lot of average republicans are just as pissed as everyone else. And for the democrats, Biden just rode off into the sunset like it was another fucking Monday.
It’s all about money and power. If you go through and look at the majority of reasons why you hate the average republican or hate the average democrat, I can guarantee if you go back far enough you will find someone trying to sell you something or make money off you. And when you see the average American regardless of politics out in the wild, are they really that different from you? As long as we keep insulting each other for the dumbest shit, the only thing we are going to accomplish is exactly what they want. When a certain Mario brother brought us all together on a topic for once, how long did it take for us to go back to hating each other? A couple days? A week, maybe?
So I guess TL;DR is no, not really. We are all susceptible to propaganda and we all fall for it. Just remember the next time you’re pissed off at someone, try to think about whether or not it’s your opinion or what someone told you is your opinion. And that goes for both “sides.” The powers that be are bamboozling us all so we ignore the fact that it’s their fault.
Only ones to blame are the Democratic National Committee with their heads in each other’s ass cavities echochambers of corruption. They shoved off Bernie Sanders when the whole left wanted him and his fight for the everyday citizens .
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100%
They knew who they voted
So either they are stupid or they clearly support the morals of trump, wich makes them the bottom of society imo
Just as much as I blame people that didn’t vote
As a non-USian viewing all this from the outside, I’d say blaming the people at the bottom for what the largest gaslighting machine in the history of human civilization has managed to achieve is absolutely masochistic.
Your anti-democratic political establishment is to blame for this.
I’m pretty torn on this to be honest.
On the one hand, propaganda is a hell of a drug especially if you’re already sympathetic to the ideas of one party or another. You want to be able to agree with them or you’re left realizing you have no options at all. It’s a similar thing to those on the left being “forced” to support Democrats even if they basically loath the current party. If not for them then they have absolutely nothing, no hope of any representation at all.
On the other hand, how many times can you be confronted with outrageous situations and such a large, essentially global, consensus that “your team” is just straight up wrong before you realize you’re supporting actual bad people? You’re making a choice to support people doing actual bad things, but again, based on the propaganda you might never believe bad things are actually bad, or are even really happening.
I’ve had many many arguments with my father and I’ve come to realize he absolutely will not accept information that is not what he already wanted to hear. Fox is good when it says “Trump good”, fox is bad when they say “Trump did something wrong.” I pleaded with him to at the very least stop watching the fox primetime peanut gallery where they lie with impunity, that he would be better served watching Fox journalists like (at the time) Shepard Smith. His response was “Smith is too opinionated, I prefer Hannity.” … Sean Fucking Hannity, the guy who’s show is literally an opinion show. He just wants confirmation bias. When a Republican committee release a document it’s gospel, when a Democrat lead committee release something it’s fake news lies.
I blame them collectively for supporting fascists, but I can’t really blame an individual human for being a stubborn ignorant human. It’s our nature to be thick headed. Some way more than others.
“No one is the villain of their own story.” My stubborness is that I choose to believe this quote is true. 99% of people believe they’re doing the right thing, it’s why we even have the cliche of “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.”
They ate the propaganda. I can’t really say its their fault, propaganda is why they did what they did, the fault lies with those who promoted far-right propaganda.
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He said he was a racist Nazi who wanted to be a dictator. Yeah i blame the people who voted for him.
I blame capitalism, the underfunded education, and the well-oiled propaganda machine of the tech industry
This.
Both sides got you to this point.
Both sides this both sides that
Have you ever considered that the world doesn’t conform to your intuitions of perfect balance?
I blame capitalism for this one. Misinformation and lobbying is very profitable. Using prior knowledge of what laws are coming into effect is also very profitable. Retiring and becoming a lobbyists is also.
In the US hard facts have become debatable and there’s a shitty system that massively benefits two political parties.
I don’t necessarily blame the people since the system is rigged against people’s interest. They get mad and vote anti-establishment which is still very much the establishment.
How much do you blame the people who voted for Trump or other fascists?
Every one who can be dead to me is dead to me.
Those who are unfortunately tied to me by blood or marriage get the minimum of interaction that family dynamics require me to give.
That’s how it will stay.
Trump voters knowingly voted for a rapist. That’s not hyperbole. It’s a matter of public record now. I think that’s all that needs to be said.
Democrat voters were knowingly voting for literal genocide. This has to be the worlds worst virtue signal.
I want you to explain for me how voting for Trump is - somehow, according to you - not voting for literal genocide.
In point of fact: Trump just removed the (admittedly woefully insufficient) weapon restrictions that were previously being applied to Israel
Besides the irrelevant symbolic posturing from Biden being undone, nothing Trump does or will do absolves Biden.
Lets say Trump raped 70 people and Democrats raped 60 people. One cannot say “I would never vote for a rapist”, and then endorse Democrats. Replace the word rape with genocide and multiply the numbers by a thousand.
So far, Trump has already done more to reign in the carnage in Gaza than the Democrats did, BlueMaga types like you only don’t realize that because you were aggressively denying the extent of the genocide under Biden.
His cabinet is full of zionists. There is not a big difference between Biden, trump and Harris. Both parties will always try to outcompete each other in supporting Israel
Elise Stefanik, Donald Trump’s nominee for U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, stated during her January 2025 Senate confirmation hearing that Israel has a “biblical right” to the occupied West Bank.
Steve Witkoff, Donald Trump’s Middle East envoy, suggested relocating some Palestinians from Gaza to Indonesia aka ethenically cleasing them
Trump also cancelled the performative action of genocide joe of halding 2000 ton of bomb to the idf
I’m not saying Trump doesn’t support Israel and the genocidal Zionist agenda in general, but I also don’t believe he’s as personally passionate about it as the people like Blinken and Biden are. Like, he will continue supporting Israel in the way that the USA always does, but he was willing to tell them to knock it off when the sheer horrific brutality of what they were doing was becoming a millstone around the neck of the USA agenda, which the last year of genocide absolutely was. I’m saying he’s as bad as someone like Reagan on Palestine, which is still bad, but the Biden administration was the worst of the worst.
Lmao what the actual fuck? Are you being serious? Did you not see the article I posted, or even try to corroborate/disprove it yourself, and then realize that it is a thing, and it’s easy to corroborate?
How deep in the BlueAnon well are you that you think lifting the entirely symbolic ban is more important than securing a fucking ceasefire! Jesus Christ, you people genuinely don’t see us as human, you care more about scoring points against Trump, and you’d rather we all die if it proves you right.
Your refusal to believe or understand facts and context around the negotiation is deeply telling. Just so you understand why we are all continuing to downvote you.
Also:
You were the one describing actual facts as “utter nonsense”
And I understand why you continue to downvote: because you’re so fucking upset that Trump won the election and didn’t continue the genocide that you’ve decided to embrace fantasy and are lashing out at anyone who reminds you of reality.
Like what? Last thing I read he continued shipping heavy weapons that were previously banned from being shipped to Israel and some clown in his cabinet stated that Israël has some sort of holy right to the land. I’m not American and I don’t approve of the democrats way handling it, but the republicans so far seem worse.
He literally secured a ceasefire; you really need to re-examine what news sources you’re consuming if you only heard that he repealed Biden’s entirely symbolic ban on one type of bomb, but somehow managed to miss the ceasefire.
The ceasefire happened before Trump took office
It was secured by Trump envoy.
This just shows me that republican are more vocal about israel support. The biggest military aid happened during Obama and biden bypassed two time the congress to help the genocide. He also gave more defensive system to Israel so it feel safe to continue the war
Secured a ceasefire
Cease fire was negotiated and secured by the Biden administration. Try again.
Edit: or am I misunderstanding what you’re saying?
No, it was not, it was negotiated by Trump’s envoy. Maybe you should do the smallest amount of research before trying to act like a smug redditer and give away your ignorance
If you did any research, rather than just trying to confirm your own fantasy, you’d know that it was done by Trumps envoy, so drop the smug reddit shithead act and actually look at the facts.
Oh fucking stop! Trump has ALWAYS been one of Israel’s biggest supporters he’s given Bibi free reign to do whatever the fuck he wants. Stop with the whataboutism already. You people have literally just elected the nazi Party. Admit to your mistake and fucking fix it.
Stop virtue signalling like you have a moral high ground to stand on. Democrats are also the Nazi party. You only like Democrats because you were not the person being slaughtered in their concentration camp and you do not care about anyone but yourself.
I’m not even American! Im just watching the world fall apart because you fucking bible monkeys are too fucking stupid to see the writing on the wall. You just keep banging on the keyboard: WHAT ABOUT GAZA? WHAT ABOUT GAZA?
WHAT ABOUT GAZA?
WHAT ABOUT GAZA?And in doing so have elected litteral fucking fascists who do not plan on having elections in 4 years. And I genuinely would not give a shit what happens to your armpit of a country if it weren’t for the fact that the USA has put itself in such a position that many countries rely on you to keep your shit together and not elect someone who threatens to… Oh I don’t know… INVADE PART OF THE EUROPEAN UNION!
Get your head out of your arse and stop pretending that both candidates are just as bad as each other. Sure by western European standards the Dems were pretty far right, but not like trump. Not like the heritage Foundation. Not like musk!
You’re a white supremacist, you don’t blink at the USA killing hundreds of thousands of non-whites so long as it upholds White hegemony.
So you only care about things when they impact you. That is your argument.
Who the fucking care about a random country in middle east when there are bigger things at stakes? get a grip, fuck gaza, israel and all in-between. Nobody gives a shit.
this one said the quiet part out loud
If the US was occupied you would want the whole word to support you. Do you feel the same about Russia and Ukraine?
Don’t get me wrong, I feel for the civilians in Gaza, but that’s a drop in the ocean compared to what’s coming. Also the ceasefire is specifically in Gaza. Israel is taking this opportunity to soften up the west bank.
Another reminder that Westerns don’t consider us to be human. Fuck you, I hope someone drops you in an ocean you ghoul.
Between trying to stop a genocide and losing some rights i would pick stopping a genocide. Us citizens had decades to make a valid non imperialist third party before Trump appeared but no they decided to vote to the same two terrible parties complains and think that some protests is going to make politicians act for the good of everybody
The argument is Democrats are cherry picking the sole bad thing their guy did not do. Then they frame the conversation as if that thing is the only thing that matters
removed, he’s already objectively done more than the Democrats did to reign in Israel, you just don’t realize it because you’re a BlueMAGA fanatic that spent the last year doing everything you could to deny and downplay the genocide that Biden was overseeing.
Jesus Christ, I’m not even American. I couldn’t give less of a shit if it weren’t for the fact that you unhinged motherfuckers are in charge of the largest military in the world and are supposed to hold the russians back. Just remove your head from your colon and fix your mistake.
Not being American make it even worse that you’re a blueMAGA cultist, dumb ass.
Perhaps you should take your brain out of the box and put it back in your head. Again
I
Don’t
Give
A
Fuck
About
The
Democrats
I just have a problem with fascist dictatorships that threaten to annex their neighbours. But you know I guess my anti fascist stance makes me “blueMAGA”. Go to school and learn about how Hitler rose to power in Germany, you fucking child!
You clearly do give a fuck about the Democrats, given this whole conversation was started by you defending their genocide. and no, supporting genocidal right wingers doesn’t’ make you “anti-fascist.”
You should have told us from the beginning. You value ukranian lives more than palestinian lives. All life should be valued
Trump will be objectively worse for Palestine than Biden (not that you actually care).
he’s already objectively done more than the Democrats did to reign in Israel
How is it not possible for you (all of you who parrot this) to see that Trump tossed you a brief reprieve so you can make EXACTLY this argument? Are you only capable of looking two weeks into the future or something?
As I say every time: Biden was awful for Gaza. Trump is also awful for Gaza, and then he’ll take down as much of the rest of the world and the US with it as he can.
You are literally and transparently doing exactly what Trump wants you to be doing right now, because it legitimizes him.
Israel Invades Jenin Days After Signing Gaza “Ceasefire”
Israeli leaders suggest the operation was plotted during a backroom deal made during Gaza ceasefire vote
Among those killed by Israeli forces on Tuesday was a civilian named Abed Alwahhab Saadi. In footage posted online, he can be seen walking unarmed along an empty road as he suddenly comes under fire and begins to run before being shot and falling face down in the ground. Another shocking video shows a family repeatedly being targeted by gunfire while driving in their car, reportedly killing another civilian, Ahmed Nimer Obeidi.
Medics also came under attack, with at least three doctors and two nurses injured by Israeli gunfire within the first two hours of the invasion. Israeli forces also besieged Al-Amal hospital near the camp and fired live ammunition from its vicinity while obstructing medics from reaching the injured. At the same time, residents described Israeli troops forcibly taking over civilian homes across the city and turning them into makeshift military positions.
Tuesday’s operation came just two days after the start of the “ceasefire” in Gaza, whose first phase is supposed to last for six weeks. Israeli ministers and media reports have suggested the military operations in Jenin and other areas of the West Bank are part of a deal Netanyahu made with his cabinet ahead of the ceasefire in Gaza.
How is it not possible for you (all of you who parrot this) to see that Trump tossed you a brief reprieve so you can make EXACTLY this argument? Are you only capable of looking two weeks into the future or something?
No, I’m not capable of looking two weeks into the future, and neither are you. Currently, the fact is that he secured a ceasefire, proving that Biden was not trying to for the previous year. The rest is just BlueMaga fantasizing about more genocide, because you care more about being right than you do about thousands of dead foreigners.
Biden was awful for Gaza. Trump is also awful for Gaza
I’ve had to listen to a year of you shitlibs bleating endlessly about how important it was to vote blue because they’re the lesser evil, now that it turns out Trump was actually the lesser evil, suddenly you’re abandoning that.
and then he’ll take down as much of the rest of the world and the US with it as he can.
No, he’s not going to “take down the rest of the world”, at least not anymore than the average US president. As for taking down the US: Good! it’s an evil empire that spreads death across the globe and we would be better off without it.
You are literally and transparently doing exactly what Trump wants you to be doing right now, because it legitimizes him.
You people genuinely don’t believe foreigners are human, do you? That’s why you care less about saving thousands of lives than you do about whether Trump looks good or not. I don’t care about the parasocial kayfabe, I care that there’s a ceasefire.
I’ve had to listen to a year of you shitlibs bleating endlessly about how important it was to vote blue because they’re the lesser evil, now that it turns out Trump was actually the lesser evil, suddenly you’re abandoning that.
You’ll find plenty of comments where I acknowledge that Biden and Harris were bad on this issue, so please, don’t put words into my mouth. My position has been the same. Biden/Harris bad on this issue, Trump worse.
You people genuinely don’t believe foreigners are human, do you? That’s why you care less about saving thousands of lives than you do about whether Trump looks good or not.
Maybe in a few months or years you’ll have a better grasp of cause and effect. Those lives aren’t pawns to me, they are pawns to Trump. You’ve seen his opener so far.
No, I’m not capable of looking two weeks into the future, and neither are you.
I’m capable of knowing how Trump operates though through past experience. And so are you, but you have taken the cake he gave you so you have stopped looking.
I already showed you how meaningless his action was - Israel is just killing the same folks but in a different area now. And I guarantee you it’s only the beginning.
You people genuinely don’t believe foreigners are human, do you?
You’re wrong, but it’s a great way to avoid processing any of my words if you insist that’s the case.
You’ll find plenty of comments where I acknowledge that Biden and Harris were bad on this issue, so please, don’t put words into my mouth. My position has been the same. Biden/Harris bad on this issue, Trump worse.
Objectively incorrect
Maybe in a few months or years you’ll have a better grasp of cause and effect. Those lives aren’t pawns to me, they are pawns to Trump. You’ve seen his opener so far.
His opener of securing a ceasefire, something that has upset you so much you’re know constantly fantasizing about how hes totally going to do an even bigger genocide in the future, and getting big bad when people remind you that you can’t actually see the future.
I already showed you how meaningless his action was - Israel is just killing the same folks but in a different area now. And I guarantee you it’s only the beginning.
My god, you really have become so deranged you actually believe you have the ability to see the future. And no, Isreal is not killing nearly as many people, so it’s not meaningless, or it wouldn’t be if you actually cared about the lives of foreigners, but you don’t.
You’re wrong, but it’s a great way to avoid processing any of my words if you insist that’s the case.
Processing your words is how I determined that you don’t consider us human
Voting for trump would’ve been the same. You really think he cares about ending the war in gaza? Like out of the two who do you think would’ve been easier to convince? In my eyes that was definitely Kamala
Well you should get your eyes checked. Kamala also doesn’t care about ending the genocide (not war) in Gaza.
And trump is different how?
He already secured a ceasefire.
Do the Palestinians get reparations or do Israel get away with what they’ve done? If they are getting away with it, Israel are just going to continue it again down the line.
Good, you people are so desperate for more dead Palestinians.
This is more concerning the replies here, but in this discussion, saying “Trump did X thing, so that’s why it’s the voters fault” is precisely why Trump voters exist. You just flip it and say “Biden has been supporting genocide, that’s all you need to know” and that’s a sufficient argument for Trump voters.
The issue is the amount of fuckups each side had, and while Trump is pretty clearly in the lead (I mean, he’s straight up a felon) to us chronically online people, I don’t know about normies who only watch the news that didn’t get the message through clear enough (not American, so I don’t know), or just use Twitter (which is Musk’s propaganda now, btw) or even other media that just recommend you what you want to see. They probably see constant allegations against the Democrats too.
For what it’s worth, I refuse to watch news networks, and have done for many years now, due to the utter drivel they push, and the breathless, manufactured urgency and false equivalence they habitually resort to. I do my best to source and corroborate things I consume across a broad ideological and geopolitical range. I’m fully aware of the rampant idiocy that Biden stuck to for large swaths of his term (and more broadly, his whole fucking career). As a result of that, I’m not ever going to agree that Trump in any way shape or form improved the situation in Gaza.
If anything, my read on it is that he likely prolonged the slaughter by getting his envoy to push Bibi to time it like this - honestly, it’s… suspiciously convenient for Trump that Bibi agreed to the same fucking thing that was presented the better part of a year ago, and that it just happens to almost exactly align with his inauguration.
This is all just part of Trump trying to project the image that he’ll “fix things on day one”. But he’s incapable of that, and only knows how to sandbag and sabotage shit so the timing makes him look better to his domestic American audience (who often consume stories like this in an uncritical and non-skeptical fashion, which is a tendency Trump is fully aware of and relies on quite consistently).
As did Biden voters, what’s your point?
lol, you again?
Oh right, you were that racist from earlier
lol I see the insult effort has dropped precipitously
Go back to reddit
Even lower effort. Lmao.
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