Hey Folks!
I’ve been living abroad for over half my life in a country where tipping is not the norm. At most you would round up. 19€ bill? Here’s a 20, keep this change.
Going to the US soon to visit family and the whole idea of tipping makes me nervous. It seems there’s a lot of discussion about getting rid of tipping, but I don’t know how much has changed in this regard.
The system seems ridiculously unfair, and that extra expense in a country where everything is already so expensive really makes a difference.
So will AITA if I don’t tip? Is it really my personal responsibility to make sure my server is paid enough?
Others have answered the question, but I did want to mention - many people mention that tips are important because employees can be paid below minimum wage, but this varies state by state, and in my experience tipping is standard regardless of this.
Here’s a table of minimum wage by state:
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
The “Minimum Cash Wage” column is the “tipped” minimum wage - this is what employers can pay for jobs that get tips. The “Basic Combined Cash & Tip Minimum Wage Rate” is the minimum wage for non-tipped jobs, as well as the minimum a tipped employee must receive in wage plus tips - if they don’t make enough tips, legally the employer must pay the difference.
So for example, in Washington state where I am, the minimum wage is $15.74 whether you’re tipped or not, but it’s still considered rude not to tip, and 20% is still the standard “good” tip.
Thanks for this! I’ll be in CA, seems like they’re getting minimum wage plus tips. At least a step in the right direction towards fair pay.
Honestly dude if you cant afford to tip. You have no business eating out in america. As a former tip worker, ya they us about 5$ an hour BECAUSE the workers make up for it in tips. and thats a big IF. theirs no obligation on the employer to make sure that they actually come up positive. and Ultimately if you dont tip because you dont agree with tipping? You just forced one of the poorest members of our country to serve you for literally 3$ which quite honestly? kinda makes you a piece of shit if you do that.
Ever heard of the phrase “when in Rome do as the Romans do”?
I’m sure you wouldn’t like it if people came to your country and did things that were seen as incredibly rude but said “oh it’s ok, in my country it’s fine”
Ouch, I think you are being oblivious to how your move is being received. I know it’s cultural and it can be complicated to understand when not used to a culture (I was born a European, and became a naturalized American), but in the US culture, that is a move only done by truly terrible people.
I’m not saying you’re a terrible person, clearly you’re not realizing how terrible this is in the culture. But I promise it really is. It would be similar in Europe to insulting the waiter, and then saying “but it’s fine in my country”. It might be true depending on where you’re from, but it doesn’t make it better because that’s not where you are.
Seriously ouch on this one…
Of course no one said anything. That would be rude. But not tipping your server is very much an asshole move, foreign or not. Those service industry workers rely on the tips because their wages are basically nothing. I agree that they should be paid a fair wage but that’s just not how it works here in the US.
Yes, but you’re not hurting the employer when you don’t tip, you’re hurting the server.
Actually, you are hurting the employer by hurting the server. Just not nearly as much.
Yep. Just because people don’t say something doesn’t mean they don’t feel some type of way about it.
To sum up, if you work in a business that relies on tips, you will defend the crap out of tipping and will be biased towards tipping uncontrollably.
If you are a business that wants to squeeze every penny, you will encourage and propaganda tipping as much as you can.
If you are anyone else you will wish for something different.
I recommend that you tip when the app says to tip, just simplify your life and if a screen says add a tip choose the minimum for now and don’t worry about it yet.
Tipping used to be a way to implement a truly granular free market (or however you want to justify it, that’s besides the point). Point being is, it’s how service workers largely get paid. So regardless of how we got here, to not tip them is to not pay them fairly for their work. The problem now is that commerces turn tipping on by default at point of sale devices indiscriminately. So tipping when you see the screen is poor advise as it just gives into greed and manipulation. Follow the original rule: you tip when there is personalised service rendered, for example restaurant waiter, or driver, or barber or hair dresser. If it is neither personalised, nor a service rendered by an individual, you never tip.
That’s not how that works. If you increase minimum wage you increase living costs
Tips don’t go though the corporate finances usually
What does that have to do with anything? Minimum wage increases tends to lead to people having more disposable income… which leads to companies and the like charging more for services because the market can now bare it.
What does corporate finances have to do with a person making their low wages + tips vs just an up front higher wage to get to a higher minimum wage?
Because raising minimum wage causes inflation because companies have more overhead
Yes, it does make you the asshole, especially because you know that’s what we do here and why we do it. Until living wage laws are passed, it’s not going to change.
In all honesty, I will probably just tip the minimum amount and try not to let it get to me. Its not like I’ll be out eating by myself anyway, there will be plenty of social pressure to help me along :)
But imagine if all jobs worked this way. Oh, you wanted a good outcome for your surgery? Maybe you should have tipped your surgeon! Oh, you wanted your taxes done correctly? Should have tipped! Sorry boss, I would have gotten you that report on time, but you forgot to leave me a tip!
I also think its silly that tips are based on the price of your meal, as if that has anything to do with the service whatsoever. So the person who ordered a steak pays more in a tip than the person who ordered a salad? Why? It would make way more sense to tip based on time spent in the establishment. I would understand a standard 5$ tip per half-hour or something way more.
Yeah like the other guy said, I only tip if it’s a sit down restaurant with an actual server who attended to you. If you are checking out somewhere and the kiosk thing prompts for a tip, I almost never do.
Always tip the cab driver a few bucks.
If you are at a hotel you should tip the valet for parking. Honestly though at hotels, tipping pays for itself. Hotel staff are demigods that can bestow good fortune if they smile upon you, so you definitely want to appease them. It’s amazing what slipping a $20 to the person checking you in can do for you.
When in doubt, you can just ask candidly what the etiquette is. Everyone knows its weird and different everywhere.
Well, I get your general point though tipping at a restaurant doesn’t quite work like that. You don’t get crappy service as a result of not tipping; you tip at the end of the service.
I tip 20% no matter how dismal the service, which is not the norm here. People have bad days and I don’t want to financially penalize them on top of it. It just feels shitty.
Here’s the thing. There are now tips added to all sorts of checkouts. And it’s muddier than ever.
As an American I don’t tip shit unless it’s a full service restaurant. Aka they are refilling my drinks for me.
If I’m getting a sandwich at a sandwich line where you stand in line and call out what ingrediants you want and take it to go, I don’t tip. If I’m just getting a coffee black, I’m not tipping. Etc etc.
The checkouts now though ask for tips on all sorts of stuff. I increasingly refuse to tip for things like self service places, takeout, etc.
This is it. There is a kind of understood, cultural part that some of the other commenters are missing.
There are situations where (traditionally) tipping is expected, and that is at a sit down style restaurant or at a bar. If the restaurant requires you to fill your own drink, bus your own table (clear the dishes), or carry your own food typically Americans do not tip (this would apply to most fast food places, or places as you’ve described where you walk up to a counter). Do most of these places still put out a tip jar? Yes. Do most customers tip? Probably not (check the jar, it might have some token coins or a few dollar bills in it, but it will not be full).
Are you an asshole for not tipping? That depends on what the situation is. Did you just sit down for a 2 hour meal with 10 people and leave $5? Yes you are an asshole. Did you drive through Starbucks or a burger place and not put a couple bucks in jar? You are probably not an asshole.
I hate tipping culture but I’m not going to take it out on workers. My personal rule of thumb is if someone is bringing me something or performing a service for me then I tip.
For example, I will tip at a restaurant where they bring things out, for a haircut, for cutting my grass, or for delivery services (food or grocery). I will not tip for counter service (except for the taco truck down the street, but they’re dirt cheap, and I may round up my bill at other food trucks), bakeries, stores (a few small ones without their own POS are using systems that have tip lines enabled by default), or gift shops.
Until people stop tipping for bullshit we don’t need to tip for, like all the card readers the last couple years that have added tip buttons for just paying for literally anything, those laws will not get passed. Why would they when customers just will pay employees wages?
Nobody can force you to. People will probably consider you to be rude, but you do yours. I also live in a place where not tipping is customary (and in fact tipping considered to be rude) and refuse to embrace this system. I’m already annoyed by list prices excluding VAT. That’s like a borderline scam.
Yeah I guess I’ll have to see how comfortable I am in the situation. I feel like the stupid system will never change unless people just stop tipping.
The simple rule of thumb is: if you are in a full service sit down restaurant (waiter takes order and then brings you your food, tipping is expected, and not doing so is seen as a major dick move, because it directly stiffs the waitstaff. The only time you should not tip in this situation is if the service is absolutely horrible.
Any other situation, like ordering at a counter and then going to get your food, or any fast food, tipping may be offered as an ask on the kiosk, but it’s never expected (not in my opinion deserved.).
But simply: if you are waited on, too 20% and be done with it.
I don’t see how the system would change unless people stop tipping, but as a foreigner I don’t see it as my responsibility to change their system.
And that’ll only hurt the poor employee’s efforts to pay rent this month. The employer could care less, and sure you may make them mad enough that you’re the last straw and they quit, but I’d be hard pressed to think you’re magnanimous for it.
Couldn’t care less.
As long as you know your supposed “goal” of “helping” isn’t accomplished and that server now hates you, and the owner you’re opposing got his share and doesn’t even know you exist, do what you wish I suppose.
Well then, please don’t visit.
We don’t have a VAT in the US, only sales tax. It’s not just a name difference, they’re different in how they’re applied
They’re not different to the consumer. Either way they’re a surcharge to the store price of the item, and most places in the world include it on the sticker.
I am aware. I was just correcting the one thing not disagreeing as a whole
Yes. You really have to tip. 20%. Sorry. And tax isn’t included in the prices of things. That’s the way things work here and you can choose to spend the whole time being annoyed by it or not. But please don’t make a personal protest that only hurts some of the lowest paid and hardest working people.
To be as clear as possible - the minimum wage for tipped staff is $2.13/hr. That’s why you have to tip.
Yes, up to minimum wage, which is still often not enought to live on.
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It’s definitely not enough to live on, but that’s beside the point, isn’t it? I don’t tip any other people because they earn minimum wage-- do you? The point is that the person isn’t actually making only $2/hr-- they’re making at least minimum wage, with the opportunity to make more via tips.
Tipping needs to end, and the laws changed to reflect it.
Being a waiter is a skilled job that deserves more than minimum wage.
I don’t disagree, but that is irrelevant to the discussion, is it not?
That’s just my response to the argument that you can choose to not tip because waiters will make minimum wage regardless. Minimum wage is not an appropriate salary for that line of work.
However, yes, I agree that laws should be changed to remove tipping or at least to require restaurant owners to pay an appropriate wage for the work with optional tips on top for exceptional service.
Yeah, legally.
In practice? Lol
This does depend on which state you’re in (some states don’t have a “tipped wage”), but the vast majority of service workers are not raking in the big bucks, so be generous if you can!
Oregon has kind of a hybrid tipped wage. There’s a minimum tipped wage, but if tips don’t add up to at least the regular minimum wage then the establishment needs to make up the tips for the shift.
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A higher federal minimum wage would solve this problem. Employers are required by law to make up the difference between the base wage and the federal minimum wage ($7.25/hr) if nobody tips.
But obviously $7.25 isn’t a living wage either, so any tipped employee that actually makes the federal minimum is living almost entirely on tips.
That’s assuming that employers follow the law, which for restaurants is rarely the case.
Fair point. And this is why unions are beneficial to the working class, and also why shitty companies like Starbucks try to bust unions.
This is deceiving though. In The US tipping is literally everywhere now.
If you are waited on, I. E. Sat at a table or served at a bar, tipping is expected. If you go to a counter and place an order and someone hands you something while you’re standing there, those workers aren’t making 2.13/hr.
I don’t tip if there’s no service being provided. Bringing my food to my table after I ordered it from a kiosk and filled up my own drink at the soda fountain doesn’t qualify.
And this isn’t universal either. For example, Culver’s will bring your food out to you but you don’t tip. So I would add that if you’re waited on and pay for the meal AFTER eating and being waited on, then you tip.
If the service is bad I would go for 10%
Only if it’s really bad though, and on purpose.
If it was something the employee couldn’t control or just a generally bad experience that was nobody’s fault, still 20%. Place is swamped and the waiter never gave me a drink refill because they’re the only one on the floor, still 20%.
You need to tip places where you sit down to eat with waiters, yes. ~20% of the subtotal before tax. Don’t be intimidated by those little tablets asking for a tip for places where there is no table service, there is usually a no tip button. Just relax and don’t hit a button right away. They make it a little smaller.
Doordash driver: The federal government values mileage at $0.63/mile for tax purposes. They would value the vehicle expenses of a 6-mile delivery at $3.78.
Minimum wage in my state is $10.10 per hour. A 6-mile delivery takes 20 minutes, or $3.03. Anything less than $6.81 for this delivery, and the driver is earning less than minimum wage.
DD typically pays the driver $2.
A tip less than $4.81 means you expect the driver to earn less than minimum wage.
There’s another problem: Doordash’s primary rating system for it’s drivers is “acceptance rate”. The higher your acceptance rate, the higher you are prioritized for offers. The lowest tier of drivers has to wait for everyone in the area above him to be unavailable or to reject an order before he gets to work.
When a customer makes a low-tip or no-tip order, they expect a driver to pay for the privilege of delivering the order, and they are willing to ding the acceptance rating of every single driver in the area who refuses to work at a loss.
We door dash for extra money. If not for tips, it wouldn’t be worth it. They do offer an hourly rate if you choose to take it vs being paid per order but I’m not sure how that all works, we always take the per order pay.
A tip less than $4.81 means you expect the driver to earn less than minimum wage.
I disagree - it means you expect them to earn a wage regardless of how much you tip. Bosses should pay their workers a living wage, period. DD drivers shouldn’t have to rely on the kindness of strangers.
I disagree - it means you expect them to earn a wage regardless of how much you tip. Bosses should pay their workers a living wage, period. DD drivers shouldn’t have to rely on the kindness of strangers.
I agree, but if you pay for a service knowing that worker is underpaid by the boss, you are exploiting the worker just as much as the boss is.
The system is broken, it’s unethical to exploit the broken for your own advantage as well.
You don’t exploit by paying the price that was agreed on. The driver let’s himself be exploited, but that is not the fault of the customer. If I agree to give away 100 $ bills I don’t get exploited by people taking them.
You don’t exploit by paying the price that was agreed on.
How is this relevant?
An agreement with the owner that is exploiting the laborer is absolutely exploiting the laborer.
The people who bought slaves for the agreed upon price from the master are also guilty of slavery.
It’s a very painful and difficult truth than participating in the broken system is enabling the broken system.
The driver let’s himself be exploited
You mean that being exploited is marginally better than being homeless.
The price that was agreed upon includes the assumption of tips as it’s currently apart of the social contract in these countries, like it or not. You’re allowed to hate the system, shit I’m sure drivers and servers hate the system and would much prefer to make a risk-free living wage, but if you refuse to participate and by doing so fuck over the lowest paid workers in those countries you are 100% an asshole. You aren’t fighting some big evil social injustice, you’re just an asshole.
Some people genuinely don’t realize the delivery person doesn’t get paid much. I didn’t even know for the longest time that the “delivery fee” apparently does not go to the driver. That’s an issue with DoorDash and similar apps’ messaging to the users. My tips have gone up since I learned that the delivery fee is apparently not for the delivery person. It’s not always malice on the customer’s part though. Sometimes it’s genuine misunderstanding.
No, they don’t rely on the “kindness” of strangers, in these countries tipping is a social norm, not a kindness, so they’re actually relying on strangers to just not being complete assholes. The system is lame as hell and most people agree, but if you take that out on the lowest paid members of society you’re just a douchebag.
Just FYI, we have recently had a huge influx of electronic systems asking for tips in places that tips didn’t exist before. I only tip when I sit down to eat at a restaurant and they serve me. If you walk up to the counter to order, you don’t tip. If you are ordering takeout (even at a sit-down restaurant), you don’t tip.
It’s a really fucking stupid system that most of us hate, but if you don’t participate, you are the asshole according to our culture (even though we know it’s really the businesses not paying their employees enough that are really the assholes)
Edit: oh, and then “suggested tip” went up around the same time that these electronic systems popped up. My whole life, a 10% tip was bad, a 15% tip was average. A 20% tip was good. Now it seems the “suggested tip” says you should tip 20% minimum. I think this is bullshit, and I ignore it. The people who are suggesting the tip are the ones that benefit from it going higher. They are always going to try to increase it as long as they can get away with it. I stick to the 10/15/20% rule.
There’s been a small movement towards going tipless that hasn’t yet caught on because tip culture is primarily backed by greed. Restaurant owners want customers to pay their employees directly instead of providing them with a decent wage.
I know I’m likely misrepresenting, but that’s the gist as I see it, and until greed goes away everything @dandroid@dandroid.app said holds true.
Restaurant owners want customers to pay their employees directly instead of providing them with a decent wage.
A lot of employees want this as well. Those who do well in well traveled restaurants or bars then to make WELL over the minimum wage. This is why the employees get mad at the patron/client rather than their employer when they don’t get a tip. It works… it’s what many of them want.
The sad part is that prices for things have already been going up considerably… So what was a $5 tip @ 10% years ago is now closer to $20 tip @ 20% today for the same meals/amount of food. It isn’t a 2x increase at all… Since it’s % based on subtotal and those costs have been going up… it’s significantly more if you follow their “minimum” percent tips.
I follow something similar to Dandroid and refuse to change. I only tip for sit-down restaurants where an actual servers brings me my food. If I get shit service, you’re not getting a tip. If it’s basic service, you’ll get 10%… 15% for “good”… 20% for outstanding. Although looking at the laws in my state, I’m debating on cutting it back considerably. Minimum wage in my state is not the $3.and change per hour for those positions. It’s just about $11 and the normal minimum wage is $13 and change. So if I’m the only table in their whole section, and I tip 2$ per hour, they’re making minimum wage. And people here still complain about the tipping… The only explanation is greed… and I can’t stand that at all.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
This is a great resource when these discussions come up. Many states do NOT adhere to the $2.13 tipped wage.
In my state (AZ) it’s $10.85. People here still complain about tips. The minimum wage here is $13.85. The $3 difference is nearly guaranteed as long as long as you have 1 table an hour. Forget that the normal where I live is probably closer to 3-4 every hour. [I recognize that other areas may not have such traffic. But I can only comment on what I observe]
If the average table is leaving ~$5 in tips… you could easily make $30 an hour in wages.
This is why I say what I say… It’s absurd when I hear local news or something complaining. $30/hr is stupid “livable”.
“I could do profit sharing and have all my employees benefit from busting their ass, or I could pay them next to nothing and force the customers to supplement their income out of respect or pity.”
It shouldn’t shock anyone that the practice of tipping has a racist history.
Please continue to tip service workers.
It depends.
If you go to a restaurant where your food is brought to you are probably going to be expected to tip.
But, if it’s a Fast Food restaurant like McDonald’s or someplace you stand in line and get your plate like Chipotle or a buffet you’re not going to be expected to tip.This is a very good rule of thumb.
Important to note that the credit card machines pretty much everywhere will still ask you if you want to tip now, to the point where I’ve seen jokes about lifeguards and ambulance drivers pulling out an iPad with tipping options, I think the processors are hoping psychology will make them a little bit more cash. Either way, it is not an asshole move if you don’t tip at Subway. IMO it makes it more likely at some point that an employer tries to lower their hourly wages to the hourly + tips you see elsewhere.
Here, unfortunately, YTA if you don’t tip. I forgot once and had the server run after me to make sure something wasn’t wrong. Some service folks take it personally if you don’t tip, which makes sense given that their employers don’t pay them shit. So yeah, you the customer foot the bill for ensuring these people can make ends meet… as if giving the restaurant your custom wasn’t support enough.
The problem is that, like most other industries here in the US, the system is rigged against the working class. While not all restaurant owners intend to fuck over their staff (especially smaller, local places), it’s how it works. Now, some places will automatically add gratuity to your bill under certain conditions, so check your breakdown to ensure it’s not already included. This is becoming more common, which irritates me since I scale my tip based on the quality of the service rendered.
Also, we know it’s expensive here. Don’t bother coming here to complain about it, we do it enough ourselves. Tipping is here to stay for now and I don’t imagine it changing for quite some time.
Just to add onto this good answer, you are really only expected to tip for sit-down restaurants with service and bars.
For takeout, cafes, fast food, etc., you don’t need to tip. A lot of places these have payment machines that just ask if you want to tip by default. You can safely hit “No tip” on these if you don’t want to.
Ostensibly it’s just to replace the tip jar for those who don’t use cash, but the prompt appearing every time you pay by card has convinced a lot of people that tipping is what you’re supposed to do in those situations, when in reality you have no obligation to.
Damn now I feel dumb for tipping at vending machines.
So will AITA if I don’t tip?
Yes
Is it really my personal responsibility to make sure my server is paid enough?
Because of the circumstances, taxes, and customs, yes – in this case – the responsibility has been pushed onto you.
You’re right that it is ridiculous and unfair, but it is also currently the way it is. By not following the custom, the one being most hurt is the one least able to do anything about it. You also have to walk around afterward thinking that you maybe did not do the best thing.
It seems there’s a lot of discussion about getting rid of tipping, but I don’t know how much has changed in this regard.
Some experiments have been tried, and in some places a ‘service charge’ appears in lieu of tipping (you need not tip in these places).
Also, recently, counter service has put out tip jars and credit-card screen prompts for before-service tipping. You need not do it at all there. However, if a server has served you beyond the counter, tipping after the service is customary.
To tip 20%, take the subtotal (before the taxes), and move the decimal point one to the left. $28.00 becomes 2.800 (10%) then double that result, $5.60 (20%) is a good full-service tip on a $28.00 bill. More is welcome but never expected or required. Tipping down to 15% is fine, too, don’t try to make it an exact science. Tipping outside of 15-20% – after the service – is usually done to send a message although studies have not shown that servers really care about those messages too much.
Because of this dastardly system, not tipping is particularly bad because tipping is most of their income. By not tipping, they are working essentially for nearly free in most U.S. states (a very low hourly rate, well below poverty wages).
And finally, if you don’t know, honestly and politely ask them or a manager. “I’m not from the USA. Can you tell me how much I am expected to tip in this situation?” Servers may be a little generous with their answer, but most people are honest and happy to know that you will not stiff them for their tip.
