Hyprland is an open source Wayland compositor based on wlroots, a project I started back in 2017 to make it easier to build good Wayland compositors. It’s a project which is loved by its users for its emphasis on customization and “eye candy” – beautiful graphics and animations, each configuration tailored to the unique look and feel imagined by the user who creates it. It’s a very exciting project!
Unfortunately, the effect is spoilt by an incredibly toxic and hateful community. I cannot recommend Hyprland to anyone who is not prepared to steer well clear of its community spaces. Imagine a high school boys’ locker room come to life on Discord and GitHub and you’ll get an idea of what it’s like.
I empathise with Vaxry. I remember being young, smart, productive… and mean. I did some cool stuff, but I deeply regret the way I treated people. It wasn’t really my fault – I was a product of my environment – but it was my responsibility. Today, I’m proud to have built many welcoming communities, where people are rewarded for their involvement, rather than coming away from their experience hurt. What motivates us to build and give away free software if not bringing joy to ourselves and others? Can we be proud of a community which brings more suffering into the world?
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They just love getting attention by creating all these drama all the time. What a waste of time. Fucking snowflakes.
The guy who develops hyprland is a known transphobe, I’m surprised this is just now coming out.
That usually isn’t a problem as long as they keep it to themselves and away from the community. There are many Foss developers who are like that - they don’t cause a controversy. This one seems to be different and openly toxic.
This is a good enough reason to fork a project and establish a new community with new norms.
People like you are insane
I mean if he is the lead dev, then I doubt this makes much sense.
Hyprland is itself a fork of wlroots, a project that the author of this post created, so this has happened before and they definitely have the skills to bootstrap a new project.
It’s not a fork of wlroots. wlroots is a library to assist developers in creating Wayland compositors.
Yeah my mistake. Thanks for the correction.
Hyprland is itself a fork of wlroots, a project that the author of this post created
No, it is not. wlroots is plumbing containing parts a compositor commonly would need to implement, and many compositors - including hyprland - sit on top of that to avoid reinventing the wheel over and over again.
Ah yeah I had it wrong. Thanks for the correction.
Fork this project for what? For hecking misgendering your sisters? Go fuck off to your safespaces and stop bring your cancer to free software.
All this over some discord server drama. I cant blame the dev for wanting to code and not waste his time moderating.
“server”
That douchebag can’t even moderate himself. I wasn’t considering trying out hyprland, but after this I wouldn’t feel safe running his code on any of my computers. I can imagine that it would do some “prank” if it found out that I’m thinking differently
Then don’t run a discord instance?
“Hey, the server is getting pretty toxic and I can’t be bothered moderating it - this is no longer an official communication channel, I’m not going to be hanging out here anymore, if you need help ask in the GitHub discussion forum”
The developer owes you nothing.
The developer doesn’t owe us anything, but if they’re creating an online community like Discord there are inherent responsibilities that come with that. If they don’t want to moderate, then they shouldn’t create a Discord/Matrix/Whatever server.
Just like how even if the developer doesn’t owe us anything, that doesn’t mean it’s fine for them to push malware as an update to their previously fine code after they’ve established trust.
It’s the moderation staff’s responsibility. Sorry for nitpicking, I understand in this case it’s likely the same people.
I just get triggered when I hear that an open source software developer should have any responsibilities at all (maybe apart from some extreme examples), and I wouldn’t like this idea to stick in anyone’s head.
He doesn’t have the responsibility to open a discord server for his project, absolutely agree.
But if you open a server, you do in fact have to moderate it.
I’m in the max server limit, 100 right now, and many of those are people who treat discord as github, which is so annoying (but many projects are of questionable legality, like Dan’s palace which makes and distributes completed android and vita ports of other games for free).
One time I got excited since there was announcement for the half life 2 android source port discord. I thought it was a big update or maybe a new game, but what I saw was something like:
the memes channel is for memes, not child porn
It’s just discord that has these issues. Matrix or IRC don’t have these problems. Discord just creates a kind of culture that fosters this stuff.
Nope it’s all over matrix as well.
I haven’t encountered any of these issue on matrix, but admittedly I haven’t joined a lot of matrix chats.
I was/am a mod for a LGBT room. I had to take a break it’s gotten so bad lately.
If your discord general chat looks like this you are in the wrong discord
Mom, people on the internet are being mean again
Just dont interact with the community. Theres an excelent wiki that details everything.
As someone on HackerNews said:
I’ve never felt the need for any “community” for my window manager of choice
Yeah.
At maximum a bug/issue tracker is needed.
That’s great for you but that might not be true for someone you recommend it to, or decides to give it a try after you mention you use it. Someone might go looking for help or tips there.
File a bug, read FAQ, StackOverflow? If you are messing around with window managers on Linux, a certain level of competency is expected. However, I’m more concerned about the weirdos hanging around in a discord chat of said window manager, harassing strangers. Such a strange hobby.
Hmm, I feel like there’s some nuances around Hyprland (and it’s kind of window managers) that makes having a place for discussion valuable.
- Plugin development discussions
- Configuration recipes and troubleshooting (Configs for tiling wm’s often are like 500-line software projects)
- …and sometimes its just fun to chat with like-minded people who share a similar philosophy on the tools they use on their computers
I’m not a hyprland user, but I find it valuable to lurk around SwayWM communities on Discord and Reddit.
Hmmm. If abuse happens, is the right idea to say that “I don’t need this community”?
I’m not sure how that HackerNews comment helps in the slightest. If my university has an obscure basket weaving community and people are getting abused in that community, should I just say “Eh we don’t actually need a basket weaving community”.
It’s also amusing to me that a commenter on a relatively obscure and niche website is complaining that that don’t need (or care about abuse that transpired on) a niche community from another website. And then this comment is echoed in yet another niche community.
“You shouldn’t use this window manager because their community is toxic”
“I’m not going to interact with the community”
Seems fair enough
For real. Not everything needs to be a fucking subculture. Next they’ll be saying, “The WinRAR community is toxic”. Like no, your discord server is poorly moderated. The problem starts and ends there.
I do not know about that, chief. WinRAR people are the most wholesome people.
I just wanted to point out that it’s ridiculous to form some kind religion¹ around a wayland compositor.
Also, I don’t want anybody to think I’m supporting what’s happening there. I just don’t really care about Hyprland’s community because I’m not part of it.
¹Hyprland’s discord server is named “Church of Hyprland”
Well, we live in a democracy: 9 out of 10 people enjoy bullying or don’t care about it. If you hate democracy, go to North Korea, snowflake!
(obvious /s is obvious)
In other non-news: Using a software doesn’t require visiting a loosely associated unofficial community. This has strong vibes of people wanting to be Christian and changing Christianity while being opposed to ~half the bible’s content if they bothered to read it. Just fuck that cesspool and move on with your life …
It is not obvious. Look at the comments, there are weird people here too.
I struggle to be interested in any bling project written by C++ “coders” since they were 9 who don’t even know how copyright works so use a pseudonym there instead - they’re almost always inexperienced children. And children are almost always sociopaths.
Is Hyprland violating someone’s copyright?
Wow, this looks awesome!
Does not anymore
It wasn’t really my fault – I was a product of my environment
Riiight.
Yeah, I’m not too fond of that statement. I respect ddevault, particularly since I have seen his serious growth into a mature, empathetic person. So ICM surprised that this made it into the post.
The very next words are “but it was my responsibility”… what exactly is bad about that statement if you don’t intentionally cherry pick a bad quote?
It was his fault too imo
You kinda left out the next line in which he says
But it was my responsibility
That’s the whole statement and tbh I agree. It’s never anyone’s fault for being a bad person, but it is 100% their responsibility to right their wrongs.
I didn’t kinda leave it out, I just left it out
From Vaxry’s response:
opinion - has no place in a serious blogpost
Sir, what do you think a BLOG is for?
Sounds like a great excuse to fork the project and start its own community. Of course, keep integrating upstream fixes, but maybe make the logo a trans pride flag.
Correction: sounds like a great reason for the users to move to a different project and abandon that codebase entirely
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Lead dev is a pompous asshole who gets offended by clarifying questions, doesn’t even take long to find an example
https://github.com/hyprwm/Hyprland/issues/1817#issuecomment-1509207084
[…] the lead dev seems to be a fucking idiot.
How so? I mean, I am tempted to agree. Reaching out to that unofficial community to improve their conduct instead of just ignoring them is pretty idiotic. But, are you sure you’ve read the linked page and understood its content?I didn’t pay attention when reading the linked page. Its author is/was the creator of wlroots, not hyprland. He reached out to the lead dev of hyprland which is very much associated with the discord community. I got so much wrong reading that …
Sorry for being contrarian.
Out of topic, but damn, this is what I like about Lemmy. Just people admitting their mistakes and people moving on without making a fuss. I missed this so much. Reddit is extremely toxic and is hard to see when you are inside
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To be fair, as a dev, I wouldn’t want to bother with that either, and much rather hand that stuff over to a moderator or a community manager. Then again, I’d also wouldn’t run a discord or a forum for those exact same reasons.
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I’m not sure if I follow. Someone made or quoted a childish argument, and they chose to not engage. What’s wrong with that?
Dito. I would want to deal with technical problems, not social ones. If people start to fight over social norms in my technical community, I would advise them to take that elsewhere. (Of course same if people behave like assholes.)
Then again I wouldn’t create a fucking discord “server” for a technical topic in the first place.
Lololol
