(begin rant)
Hi. Do you ever have a feeling that you have technical skills to qualify as a programmer, and there’s a demand for specialists, but, ironically, nobody needs them to design some useful information system or optimize the workflow in the factories, or do real science and push the limitations of human knowledge, but rather, all is just to spread some crappy advertising message as cheap as possible to the broadest audience as possible, usually without giving any respect to consumers, that feels like you’re losing your brain cells when interacting with the app/content you create. Quality level zero, consumerism level over 9k. Tons of boilerplate because ‘everything must be kept proprietary’ and it probably won’t work after 2 years because the framework you were using is down and the very idea of the becomes dated. Also, the more advanced technology, the more it’s used for shit. Like, we have generative neural networks that are used for turdposting conspiracies and generating profit/influence for some party.
I would say this clearly: I am very, very angry when I’m seeing this. I don’t want to participate in something that forces consumers to eat shit. Fuck SEO and e-commerce. Everything’s generative-AI, GANs, LLMs… now, which do not produce any value, at least to the user, or extracting every single bit of data of the user. Everything’s just to bombard people with information nowadays. Even Project Managers get biased (mostly because of naïve hype) and promote this crap.
(end rant)
So, my question is, how do you go through all of it? Of course, devs are better paid, but I don’t care about money. I’m still a student and, although I really like programming, and I’m really good at solving Competitive Programming problems (been at ICPC several times), I’m tired of this junk, besides I have a feeling I’ll be forced to do it. But, if I’m going to do it, somebody’s gonna get hurt. But it seems that it’s the only thing I’m skilled at, and I have no alternatives. So, how do you get through all of it, and what do you see it as relief, what does reward you at the very end?
EDIT: uncensored all swear words at request. I hope now you’re happy.
Everything’s generative-AI, GANs, LLMs… now, which do not produce any value,
hey, I think my LLM satire news thing is cool, at least I have fun with it
Go into embedded software. You can’t do ads if there is no UI taps head.
Cli advertisements FTW - Ubuntu embedded edition
I simply refuse.
I work in a niche part of the IT world, and I have plenty of niche skills, so if they wanted me to do that kind of stuff they’re paying for the skills for which I was hired, while using me for something they could get someone much cheaper to do.
I’ll stick to my clustered storage racks and make things work in harsh environments. I like it, I’m good at it, it pays well, and I don’t have to deal with the awful shit that often falls under IT.
SWE’s don’t want to work in factories, generally, because pay is shit and hours are worse than selling your soul to bay area tech.
Even so, I’m planning to go back.
Web design is not the only option for someone who likes programming. Since you are still a student, there are so many options in front of you. You can be an embedded engineer and work closer to hardware, design firmware, electronic chips themselves or their verification environment. You can be a software engineer and work on business-to-business software which does not include adds and is very useful (e.g. CAD tools, inventory trackers for supermarkets and hospitals etc.). There is so much you can do, pursue something you are enthusiastic about.
better things exist, but nothing is ever perfect.
it would be better to learn to dettach your self-esteem from the job. think on work like the chore it is, like taking out the trash and washing dishes, something you do to pay the bills
I took decades of experience plus adhd medication and depression medication to get where I am. I still feel annoyed to be using tech I don’t like and doing stuff I don’t like, but I’m handling it a lot better now
Without doxxing myself, I worked for a small firm that helped “tech for good” companies to build their MVP or product towards Series A-C funding.
In the four years I worked with them, I don’t remember a single project there that wasn’t tainted by corruption, dodgy owners, or outright lies. This ranges from:
- The owner of a popular wellness and workplace stress app getting pissed off with me because a bug was found in a Node backend I had built for her (a PDF upload didn’t fill the correct fields in the DB). Her support contract was up with us, so she took the sane approach - literally calling my employer out on LinkedIn, and me by name as being an “incompetent developer”. Legal got involved, and she had to issue an apology online.
- Several instances of outright lying in pitch decks about customer numbers and eco credentials to get “green” funding.
- The company itself transitioning to crypto, despite pushing the fact that they only work on tech for good projects, while being run by a COO with a history of being inappropriate, having heavy drug/alcohol use, and being genuinely fucking useless in the world of tech.
- A workplace surveying tool to unlock happiness in the workplace getting funding through our work, then deciding to fire the entire fucking team we had built to run their product because they wanted to cut costs and sell to the highest bidder - a company notorious for horrendous workplace practices.
- Someone bragging about their CTO working at Amazon for 5 years. While true, it was in a fulfillment center.
- Countless charities that burn through money in ways you wouldn’t believe, or act hypocritical to their main mission. Imagine trying to fire someone at a mental health charity because they needed time off from stress, or making dead kid jokes at a fundraiser for a children’s charity…
Working at that place made me realise that sometimes the best you can hope for is a leadership structure that aren’t total assholes, and to work on something that you at least have some faith in.
I work in bioinformatics, which is the application of computer science to biological problems. I have set up a genetic sequencing machine and nearly a petabyte of storage and backup for all the data because it’s huge. I really like my field because it is the application of my skills to solving problems real world problems. I’m currently employed by a children’s hospital creating tools to make genetic testing procedures better. Very fulfilling.
The field does have some issues. Many of the tools are research projects, not necessarily written by good programmers. Getting things working is a task in itself, but is becoming easier thanks to containerization technologies. Also, the pay for some reason is lower than IT work, even though it’s an interdisciplinary field requiring knowledge of biology, IT and programming. But I worked as a programmer for a few years, fixing bugs and not really working on making anything new or interesting, and I wouldn’t go back to that even though it paid better.
I work for the federal government and spend my time at work making open sourced software and outside of work contributing to open source. My job is centered around forwarding science for the betterment of society, not around making the company more money.
As a result, I’m happier. My salary could probably be about 25% higher in the private sector. However, my job is secure through retirement and the pension plan and work life balance is sensational. This year i will have taken a month off between vacations and use-or-lose. I also have banked over 2500 hours of sick leave that don’t drop off. I also work fully remote though my office is 7 minutes away with no traffic.
I do IT for a non profit. Luckily, it’s one that is funded by membership dues so I don’t have to fundraise, which includes a ton of advertising and the like. True, I’m not making bank like a lot of folks in IT. But my peace of mind is intact. I make a good living, and feel good about what I do. Jobs like mine are out there, but when you’re a student all you hear about is the vast amount of money you can make quickly by selling your soul to amazon or whoever. If you keep at it, there is a path in IT that does not include losing sight of your values. Good luck!!
Sammeee except data analyst (by title, I guess) working in local healthcare. I’m under the impression I could make bank by selling out but I’m quite happy with 70k, a pension, and my dignity.
Unfortunately 90% of jobs require contributing to and reinforcing the worst aspects of society.
Work that isn’t super unethical exists. It pays well but not obscenely well like ad industry. If you are a highly in demand engineer you are making a choice by working for an ad company.
Welcome, you have discovered the alienation of labour in the field of IT. People were dealing with this shit for decades and it will keep happening as long as we live under capitalism.
As someone that is quite unfamiliar with Marx’ ideology (yet I’m aware of it being the base of communism in what was the USSR) I find it quite ironic that both late-stage (aka extreme) capitalism leads to the same as what commuism lead to: which is what Marx describes, according to the Wikipedia page, as alienation of the worker. And it shows, funnily enough, contradictions with the implementation of soviet communism, which was supposedly based on marxist ideology.
I also think it would be quite amusing to see someone do an experiment, where groups of random people are presented with either a poster that shows this idea from Marx, or with a presentation/podcast/TED Talk where a person describes and presents the idea without ever mentioning it was Marx’ ideas. As someone that always steered clear of Marx and his ideas specifically because I thought it would be about promoting communism (and as someone with Eastern European roots, I know what real communism was like), so I looked at it the same way I would look at religious propaganda: with a spoonful of salt, a bottle of scepticism, and the idea that it would be better to just steer clear instead of wasting my time, and yet when I saw this link you posted I was like “this sounds interesting, let’s check it out” and so I did, and I was left pleasantly surprised.
While there is a good bit of nuance and western propaganda around the USSR, you are essentially right. For different reasons though. The USSR never fully abolished capitalism. They thought that capitalism was a “necessary evil” that had to be contained and shaped towards a socialist/communist end goal. They intentionally reproduced the exploitative conditions of capitalism post-revolution because they thought it had to happen that way.
Socialism is most broadly divided into statist and non-statist socialism. If you’re anti-capitalist or just don’t generally care for the present condition of the world, but don’t really care for the likes of Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Mao then you should check out libertarian socialism/anarchism. It’s a broad category of ideologies with a ton of overlap that essentially boils down to “hierarchy is the real problem and any successful egalitarian society should seek to eliminate heirarchy as much as possible”
Eliminate hierarchy by allowing anyone to enter the market and do business? Some kind of marketplace … where people are free to choose their economic relations at will. Freedom and markets. A market with freedom as a defining characteristic.
You’re describing anarcho capitalism or just regular capitalism if you’re including the state. Both of which blow for a number of reasons you likely wouldn’t accept if your sarcasm is anything to go by. Did you have a point to all of that or were you just being a goober?
I moved to EdTech from gaming - mobile gaming felt so damn focussed on value extraction.
Oh man I know how you feel. You need to find a balance. You don’t have to work 5-7 days a week to live. As a skilled worker you can survive from 4 days or less. Especially if you can remote and live in a cheap place. You can spend your other work days on whatever you find to be valuable. I dunno works for me.
