Assuming you’re counting stories where the villain did very bad things for the purpose of a doing something good, there is an anime from 2005 called Speed Grapher.
Oof that was a hard one to watch sometimes
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I would say that Lex Luthor is more of a villain who sees himself as the good guy. He thinks he is humanity’s savior from what he perceives as an alien threat. Whether he is evil or not depends on the actions of Superman.
Interview With a Vampire … kind of … Lestat was by no means good to Louis, but their portrayals in the rest of the series was quite different … I think that Anne Rice was trying to show that neither of them should be considered reliable narrators and Louis will always try to portray his situation as awfully as possible and Lestat is a narcissist and will always try to portray himself in the best light even when acknowledging what he did incorrectly.
But, when I saw that book 2 was about Lestat, I was like … wtf … I hate this guy, why would I want a story with him as the main character and then I read them all, lol.
Game of Thrones, everyone is basically a villain but some of them are actually alright (like the Hound and Jamie).
Stannis was right but an asshole.
Ned was right but an idiot. As were Robb and John.
Sandor had a decent conscience he never fucking listened to.
Brienne always listened to hers and never made a good decision.
Jaime was only an anti-hero.
Mance… probably could’ve left out the cannibals.
Robb was such a fucking idiot… political marriages are a thing and affairs are so common that each region has a specific name for bastards. The series running up to the red wedding read like a Greek tragedy - just one person having a modicum of sense would’ve derailed the whole thing. Lust let loose.
Stannis was wrong first. He was bitter that he was passed over and could never resolve that - if he had he’d be living on easy street. Stubborn fucking pride.
My favorite part about aGoT is just how fucking obviously everyone gets fucked over by their flaws… the only real exception here is Jamie and Sansa - Jamie owes a karmic debt and Sansa was legitimately just “wrong place wrong timed”
Sansa wanted a fairy-tale life and GRRM asked, “Have you read many fairy tales?”
I think Jaime becomes a good guy. He starts out as a bad guy but he had a redemption arc.
He starts out as a nepo-baby and then has to actually do shit throughout the show.
Jamie pushed a kid to his death (edit: who miraculously survives to tee up a tone deaf depiction of a character with disabilities but that’s not important right now) and raped his sister over the corpse of their dead child.
Not everyone i thought jon, robert, ned, arya,hoddor and tyrrion was good and thats from the top of my head.
Yes, very significantly. Jamie in the show introspected on the person he used to be and clearly grew. I think books Jamie was meant to feel the same way but got less focus to demonstrate that growth.
In the third season of the legend of korra, a group of people try to get rid of a monarchy (which is long established as especially unequal and oppressive) in favor of self government. They also try to get rid of the avatar, because she is an infallible being with incredibly outsized power. I love the avatar universe and get how they needed to fight them, but the group wasn’t wrong
Even in the first season, I was siding with the equalists :s
Even the first season had Amon, the guy that wanted equality between benders and non-benders. At one point we’re even shown that power was cut to a predominantly non-bender neighborhood, and when people went outside to protest to get their power turned back on, they were all rounded up and arrested. Afterwards, when Korra goes and tries to get the people that were arrested set free, she’s told
All equalist suspects are being detained indefinitely. They’ll be freed if and when the task force deems them no longer a threat.
Just in case it wasn’t clear enough by that point that non-benders were treated as second class citizens.
All of the LoK villains were basically correct, and had to be caricatures of their stated beliefs in order to be villains. Amon was one of the better ones IMO though. Zaheer is too unrealistic
I think what made that group such good villains is that you could definitely see their point of view. That said, they left behind a TON of collateral damage, and they didn’t seem to care that innocent people, including children, died in their wake everywhere they went. They were terrorists that happened to have a noble cause.
If you’re talking about Kuvira you should read the comics that take place after the show. My feelings on Kuvira became much more mixed as I ended up sympathizing with her after finishing them.
Its about Zaheer and his gang
Oh. In my defense I haven’t watched Korra for years and thought it was only 3 seasons.
He’s talking about Zaheer and the Red Lotus. They were extremely well intentioned, but set about their goals with violence.
Mate. I already got corrected, what’s the point of telling me the same thing twice? Unless you just want attention. Blocking you.
was there a reasonable alternative?
They also try to get rid of the avatar, because she is an infallible being with incredibly outsized power.
Did autocorrect change “fallible”? Because otherwise it makes the opposite point.
Probably a brain fart, thanks s
No they definitely were bad guys. You cant try to murder someone just because they were born as a specific person you dont like and be good guys. And they didnt differentiate between the Earth queen and any other ruler. Their ideology when it came down to it, was indefensible trash.
I’ve been meaning to re-watch Korra, but I remember even the first time I watched it being a bit disappointed in the “enlightened centrism” where they are trying to paint every conflict as pacifists vs extremists.
I think it’s similar to looking at BioShock 1 and BioShock Infinite. There’s a lot of writers out there who just use politics and ideology as a setting for the conflict rather than actually being central to their message. It’s simply a solid formula to make a villain: take any sort of stance and push it to violent extremes. Comstock is a religious zealot, Andrew Ryan I don’t think ever even mentions spirituality if I remember. Ken Levine’s message in the two games is not about religion, but extremes.
There are benefits. It makes the villains more nuanced and relatable. It gives the protagonist room for doubt and allows for some of the “good” guys to take on antagonistic roles. But Korra also ends up supporting an oppressive regime, and Booker DeWitt gets shoehorned into fights against the people rebelling against his enemy because… Reasons?
Andrew Ryan I don’t think ever even mentions spirituality if I remember.
“No gods or kings, only men.”
The formula for a good villain is “legitimate grievance, insane solution.”
I’ll never stop complaining that in the second movie Dooku tells Obi-Wan that the Separatists are the good guys and that there’s a sith influencing the Senate. Which would have been a cool reveal for the audience, that we’re rooting for the bad guys.
But then Dooku is also a sith anyway. What a wasted opportunity.
something something “From my perspective the Jedi are evil.”
something something “You were supposed to bring balance to the force, not destroy it.”
Not exactly a story. I just watched Babylon 5, and it’s fascinating how the good guys are the bad guys are the good guys are the bad guys…
It’s Me, Myself and I.
Achieving a state of complacementness in an unperfect world full of suffering and joy.
Yep – that’s what I like about it. Good and bad are fluid, like in reality. Even Bester is shown to be a caring character striving for the good of his people.
No bad guys are good guys. And most good guys are not good guys, either.
The Shadows, the Centauri and the PSI Corps are introduced as “bad guys” but gain a lot of positive aspects during the show without becoming “good guys”. The Nightwatch and the Earth Governement under president Clark are “bad guys” – but quite a few of there supporters/members become important “good” characters, like Zach Allan, Elizabeth Lochley or Susanna Luchenko.
That’s my point about the Babylon 5 series – they deconstruct the good guy/bad guy meme. Mostly.
Watch ‘The Wire’ - the good guys are bad guys, bad guys are good guys. It’s all mixed up!
You have the most appropiate username.
Does Snape count?
What about Loki(marvel)?
Snape was never a good guy though. Very brave, yes and he had some good qualities. He was also vindictive and a bully - willing to put his petty dislikes above the quality of his teaching.
He was also vindictive and a bully
I formed the impression that James Potter and his gang were the real bullies, and Snape is a tragic character traumatized by their bullying.
Yes, but then he went on to be an adult bullying children.
Do you honestly think hed be able to keep undercover if he didnt act like a slytherin asshole?
The book strongly implies that Snape turns into a horrible person as a direct consequence of James Potter’s bullying. He seems to be a nice kid before that.
Tragic and also an asshole.
Maybe it was an act he had to play
In the scheme of the books, yes. He was a main antagonist for a while. In terms of his character, to what end did he have to act like a total dick to a child? No, he’s just a salty bitch.
Oh wow, you found my epitaph.
Snape was a good guy, in a sense of oposing the bad guy.
He was however not a good guy in a sense of being at least a decent human being.
MEGAMIND
well he didn’t “tuned out to be the good guy”. He was a bad guy and later became good because of the girl.
I think the message of the film was more that he was always good (to some extent) and that his earlier actions were influenced by his upbringing (in contrast to Metro Man’s)
He simply grew up into the role of the villain. And then he played that role.
“Presentation” gives me goosebumps every time. Such a great scene
“Presentation!” is a regular reference in our lives.
Unfortunately the sequel absolutely lacks presentation. Its like they completely forgot what made the first movie good.
There’s a sequel? 😬
Sadly yes.
Just looked it up. None of the original VA cast (all recast). 2.1 stars on IMDB. That’s the lowest I’ve ever seen.
Avatar: The Last Airbender
I mean it’s a bit spoiler-y to do so, but this also came to my mind.
Zuko is the villain in the beginning. By the end, he has completed a redemption arc and is a good guy.
One could argue that he was always a good guy and was just clouded by his father’s ambition and the loss of his mother.
That’s basically what I meant, he was the main villain in the beginning, after all. Didn’t think about that this would kinda spoil it tho.
Yep, I agree with what you meant and it was the first thing that came to my mind when looking to answer the OP.
As for spoilery, i was just kinda warning about it. The phone client I use doesnt have a spoiler tag, not sure if the web client does.
Zuko, maybe?
Zuka was never the villain, it was always Ozai, or maybe Azula.
It definitely starts out with Zuko being the villain
- Evangelion, sort of.
- Tom and Jerry
- Metal Gear Solid 3
If we’re going with doomer anime Naussicaä is probably a better example.
Naussicaä
I cannot find it anywhere. :((((
Unless I’m mistaken, they’re talking about Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind (1984)
The villains aren’t good though, it just turned out that the princess has some honor in the war
The villains had the goal of driving back the fungal forest, which was advancing and destroying civilization. They didn’t know that it was filtering pollutants out of water, and they were using militaristic techniques that have the designated “evil” tag but that IMO should be considered in a more nuanced way.
Basically, Nausicaa thought she was in the post-apocalypse and wanted to “live in harmony” with the state of the world. The Valley of the Wind had unique advantages allowing them to do that. Kushana thought the apocalypse was still ongoing, and it was - we saw that other settlements that didn’t have the special meteorological layout of the Valley of the Wind were being overrun by advancing fungal forests.
From a very slightly different perspective, Kushana was the hero here. She was unifying a disorganized and doomed rabble of survivors to work against their doom, and recovered an ancient superweapon to turn it into a protective force that would save humanity instead of attacking it. She turned out to be wrong about a few things but being wrong doesn’t make you evil. I’d argue that she wasn’t really wrong about some of the important stuff and the movie ends on a mixed note.
It’s been a little while since I’ve seen the movie, mind you, but it stuck with me pretty strongly.
And the first was by far the best
Lordgenome, Tengan Toppa Gurren Lagann
the method was the problem as far as i’m concerned
not that i saw enough episodes pre-timeskip to have a strong opinion, though
